I remember when Joe Rogan was getting giant paycheck from Spotify promoting antivax stuff, and people talked about moving to Apple Music, but it feels like many just stuck with Spotify.
I came across a post on instagram that says that Al Yankovic’s 80 million stream on playlist only netted him enough money to buy a sandwich.
Also, Spotify underpaying artists, making fake playlists with cover artists to undermine artists, are not new. It feels like the mainstream crowd just doesn’t care, which pushes me further into depression.
I personally don’t care because if a company isn’t paying you for your time/work, that’s their problem to sort out, not mine. I will go where the music is. If artists start leaving Spotify and it becomes a wasteland of nothing but trash, then I’ll find new places to get it from. Why should I worry about their income? I’m paying for a service, I get the service and use it. I have my own income issues to handle, I don’t need theirs too.
What Spotify does affects the entire music market. Why should you worry about their income? Because Spotify’s strategy makes it harder and harder for musicians to have the income to keep on making music. If you care about having music to listen to, you should care about this. Also, Spotify and music is just one example of the overall exploitation of workers. If you don’t stand for artists when it’s their livelihood at stake, why should anyone stand up for your rights when it’s your livelihood at stake?
Buy concert tickets if you want to support musicians, streaming income doesn’t really factor into it afaik.
That’s the point, though. Spotify is rigged specifically so that they don’t have to pay small artists. Spotify splits the pot with the Big Three and everyone else can go fuck themselves. I would much rather my monthly payment go toward the artists I actually listen to. Instead, most of a monthly payment goes to the most played artists-- which Spotify rigs to be whoever nets them the most money (low royalty artists, high dividends for Spotify and the Big Three who are highly invested in it)
I think Tidal scores the best among music streaming services in terms of compensating artists. I switched from Spotify to Tidal several months ago and have no regrets
It’s estimated that Tidal pays $0.013 per stream, Spotify pays $0.003 - $0.005, and Apple pays $0.01 per stream.
https://dittomusic.com/en/blog/how-much-does-tidal-pay-per-stream/I doubt it pays much better, the issue might be partially the distribution, but mainly that they are too cheap.
While it isn’t a lot more in general it is still about three times of Spotify. It also takes into consideration which artists you actually stream afaik, so that your money goes more towards those.
Even concerts barely break even for artists after all expenses. Right now, merch and physical album sales are the best way (other than directly giving money) to support your favorite artists. I don’t buy physical albums because they just become clutter at home, so I make it a point to buy merch when I go to a concert.
Buying digital albums works just as well. No need to go physical.
Not op but I would not care much. Sure things could be better but it’s not my problem. There is enough shit to worry about and music (or Spotify) is nowhere near the top half.
Same argument about standing up to someone’s livelihood being at stake can be said literally about everything. I got a limited amount of fucks to give. I’m happy if people want to fight this stuff and make music better for everyone but I ain’t part of that crew.
I dunno, I feel like its not that big of a deal to not pay spotify $15 a month
Yeah, agreed and every person can only do so much. I like to think that it’s all the same fight, it’s the fight against the stranglehold that the rich have on the rest of us.
Does Spotify affect the music market or does the music market affect Spotify’s mode of operations? Can Spotify really exist in an ecosystem where artists are fairly represented and paid equally? Look at Bandcamp, it’s been trashed and deserted because the companies that have taken advantage of it found the model unprofitable by their estimates.
There of course are many things Spotify could do, but unfortunately the momentum in the music industry is towards profit and not actual talent or social consciousness. Spotify is owned by money makers, not individuals with true appreciation for the art of music.
Found the egoist!
Sony and Universal own a pretty decent chunk of Spotify, so they have every incentive to force their artists to stay on the platform.
Reporting on Spotify’s payments to artists typically puts payments at 0.003 - 0.005 USD per stream. 80,000,000 streams at 0.003 is just shy of a quarter of a million dollars. And it’s totally fair to still argue about whether that’s enough or whether it’s fair to the many small artists than Weird Al, but his video is definitely a joke and not reflective of the actual income unless he’s getting unbelievably shafted by his label
Which is why it really sucks. Now people remember that number, keep repeating it, and essentially he has become a fake news peddler. Good job, Al.
When pay is basically non existent is there a reason to be on spotify? Or is it for “exposure” in hopes of finding new fans.
The same reason merchandise sellers are on Amazon even though Amazon forces them to lower prices and make less: if you’re NOT on Amazon, people just won’t find you. If you’re not on Spotify, you don’t exist in the music world to some people. Because otherwise where else will they search for you? Youtube Music or Apple Music, both pay sites. Otherwise you’re having word of mouth or searching manually.
https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=fNjQG7y9aoQ
I love Weird Al! But pretty sure this was hyperbole. The point still stands, though. It really is depressing that people just follow “everybody else” when giving abusive megacorporations money. Same with social media, especially when there are great, healthy, ethical alternatives to be found is the Fediverse.
Edit: I’ll just link pixelfed just because…
Apple Music isnt much better and giving even more power to such a huge corporation sucks. Regardless though, there’s this thing thats been understood with services/products where most people don’t switch unless the competition is 10x better.
Apple Music pays two time what Spotify does. Easy pick between the two.
I came across a post on instagram that says that Al Yankovic’s 80 million stream on playlist only netted him enough money to buy a sandwich.
It was hyperbole, unless his sandwich costs 200-300k. Which is the reason why his statement was very questionable.
I’m stuck in a family plan with 4 of my friends + a friend’s sister. I’m open to getting a Family Tidal Hifi Plus, but I’m not so sure, if all of them are willing to change for a higher tier and using a different servicr.
If you want to do the maths, the maximum one can possibly earn in Spotify royalties is $0.003 a stream. It doesn’t add up to a living wage for most artists.
And now, to make matters far worse, starting in 2024 Spotify will stop paying anything at all for roughly two-thirds of tracks on the platform. That is any track receiving fewer than 1,000 streams over the period of a year.
So if my maths are right, this means people not getting paid…are people that would make less than 3 dollars in a whole year?
Which really illuminates how fucked it is that they aren’t paying those people.
These tiny artists earning barely anything are evidently a major enough cost sector that it’s worth Spotify just telling them to get fucked. Playing their content is evidently significantly important to Spotify, but not enough to justify an annual check that isn’t even enough to buy a beer.
With hits that low, youre basically just advocating for UBI at that point, you cant expect pay for every little amateur hobby folks have.
People want to listen to it tough, don’t they? Don’t these amateur musicians provide a service that people value?
Thats just it, number of hits is the metric for that, if its low then folks dont want to listen to it.
What they’re actually advocating for is dividing each user’s pot by their listens.
If a user primarily listens to a handful of small bands, why shouldn’t their cut go to those bands, rather than being thrown into a big pool to be diluted? At first glance they’d be similar, but they’re arguing that if you do the math out they aren’t.
To be clear, what I said is Spotify should be sending them their annual several dollar checks. They shouldn’t be allowed to just trim away that cost entirely because the artists are small and Spotify wants more profits.
And what you’re saying is that they shouldn’t get anything because it’s “just a hobby”.
Fuck you, seriously.
Like, i dont think i deserve any money for getting some thousands of views of my art. I think im getting paid about how much money im making the platforms its on, which is nothing. Im not yet good enough to get a job making art, or to sell my art instead of making it freely viewable.
Well thank god you arent in charge of any company worth a damn, you little scammer
Lol thats a lunatics take. You absolutely can be expected to pay every person who gives you content to farm users off of.
Imagine applying your take to any other business. “Sorry john, I loved the soap, but you only have 4 people a week asking about you, so Im going to be keeping it for free.”
“Love the scarf, really, but you only sold what, 25 this year? 50? Nah, Im just going to keep this. Let me now when you shift real sales, maybe then you will deserve being paid.”
Nah dude thats lunacy
the product isnt being taken and needing replacing, this is like people coming to look at the soap you made. And if enough people come and look at it, an advertiser might give you some money to put an ad by the soap.
Now, there’s nothing stopping you from selling the soap instead. There are avenues to sell your music instead of having it on a freely accessable platform.
Except thats incorrect. Spotify is a store, asking musicians to give them the rights to sell their songs as a package deal in exchange for a cut based on popularity. All music gets ads. There is no “low popularity ad free” section.
And now you, and spotify, are saying “yeah I know we agreed to pay you based on how many customers came in here for your stuff, but I think what you rightfully and legally earned is chump change, so I wont be giving it to you.”
You are advocating scamming people because you, personally, think the money owed is a pittance. Thats an evil, black hearted mentality.
It’s sort of a sliding scale between: making content that is popular enough for a platform to make considerable revenue from it and wants to pay you a portion to keep you there, because your content is competitive and could be making other platforms money. Or, it’s a free hosting site for data you’re uploading that’s funded with ads. Every other platform I know with this model, like Youtube or Twitch, have a cutoff between the two, it’s a hosting site for users until they’re popular enough to become business partners with a monetary agreement. It’s two way freedom between each party, spotify doesnt have to pay anyone anything, and no one has to host their content on spotify.
This isnt a retroactive change of terms, it’s new terms starting next year. Everyone’s getting what was agreed to this year. If they dont support the new terms, they can leave the platform. They wont, because they’re using it as a free hosting platform and not a money maker, maybe with hopes they’ll be popular enough someday.
“Its a sliding scale, we want your content but we dont want to pay you for it, so if we think youre not popular enough to take us to court over this we are sliding the scale of how much we pay you for the content to zero”
You sound like an evil cartoon robin hood villain, do you get that? Are you floating about in chains and a nightgown, in preperation for scaring jeff bezos this christmas eve?
“Nah its like youtube bro, the other super evil and morally bankrupt company!” Thats not a defense, why are you saying that like its a defense
Any track, not any artist. You could have a hundred tracks getting hundreds of streams a piece. Maximum before cutoff would be about $3/track. Not a ton but could be hundreds of dollars. And combining that from dozens to thousands of artists potentially in that boat.
And it’s likely a good bit less than 3
Your math assumes those people only have one track on Spotify. I currently have 25 tracks on Spotify. Without advertising or promotion of any kind, I earned about $12 this year. The big problems are:
- New rules apply per song, so if ALL my songs got 999 streams, that would be $75 they wouldn’t pay me–if ONE song hit the magic 1000 streams they would pay me $3 and I still wouldn’t get the other $72
- They are still making money off my streams, they are just coming up with ways not to pay me for it while still claiming to be “artist focused”
- They claim the “small payments” usually don’t get claimed anyway so they don’t see the need to make them–this is ideologically “paying with exposure”
- By your logic, since $33,975 annual income is the federal poverty level, anyone making less than that should not complain about not getting paid at all–you can obviously insert any arbitrary amount here to support the “logic” of “that’s not much so nothing at all is just as good”
I have no delusions about ever making a living off Spotify (or my extremely niche music in general), but the idea that a corporation should be able to monetize my work and not have to pay me anything for it is sort of distasteful
Some context is that this is Spotify’s first profitable quarter in quite a while. Also, there are 11 million artists on Spotify. I won’t pretend to have any data on listening distribution, but even naively and stupidly going with a uniform split, that’s of course $5 per artist if you eliminated Spotify’s profit entirely. In reality, most of those will have next to no listeners, and the vast majority of streams are going to the top several thousand.
The deeper question to ask is where all the streaming revenue is actually going, and the answer to that isn’t to line Spotify’s pockets; it’s to the labels.
It’s a bit of a confusing situation. Spotify pays the labels for the rights, but also has to pay the artists? Do the artists not get money from the labels for the money they got from seeling their songs? Do artists that own their own songs get a larger cut from Spotify?
And yeah 56mil is nothing to a business like this, I’m surprised it’s not more profitable with all the subscriptions and ad money. It’s like THE platform for music nowadays.
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What’s the pay rate for artists?
I have around 48k streams on spotify and I’ve earned a whopping $172. Their new payment model would bring that down to essentially $0.
I feel like you’re doing everyone a disservice when you don’t tell us the most beneficial way for us to hear your music.
The best way is always to buy the music directly from the artist, in this case:
How much of this is Spotify’s fault and how much is the major record labels sitting between Spotify and the individual artists?
And is there a better place for us consumers to go and vote with our wallet? Ideally somewhere that isn’t one of the 5 major tech giants that control everything
Cory Doctorow writes extensively about how it’s Spotify’s fault, as an extension of the common exploitation of musicians in the industry, in the excellent book Chokepoint Capitalism. Here’s a short summary of the Spotify argument by the author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ5z_KKeFqE
We will never know, but somehow people think it’s our problem to deal with.
The newest part, which is Spotify refusing to payout what small artists are owed if they don’t hit a certain streaming threshold, is 100% on Spotify.
For alternatives, Tidal allegedly pays better and at least doesn’t do this. Qobuz is not owned by any big tech company.
The record labels that own Spotify
The justification for this is demonetizing white-noise tracks or other work without creative effort that supposedly costs spotify too much. I’m not a fan of the direction this is going because one of the best things about the platform was it’s selection of underground music. This just buries it deeper and doesn’t help artists that are trying to break through. It just shovels the profits to the top earners who are already doing quite well. There aren’t many alternatives and bancamp has been passed down from epic games to songtradr and isn’t anywhere near a real alternative yet.
Would love to know if this is better at Tidal than at Spotify. After all, that is the main reason I switched.
I haven’t used Spotify in a while. I buy stuff on Bandcamp (Bandcamp Friday usually).
Do you know if this still gives artists the most cash after Epic’s purchase(and recent sale to songtradr)?
https://get.bandcamp.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500006084082-What-are-Bandcamp-s-fees-
They charge a 15% fee. So the artist (if independent) or record label (if not) gets 85% of whatever you pay.
Sounds like they’re still one of the best. That’s good to hear.
I believe on Bandcamp Friday the artist gets 100% of the sale. I’m not sure if they’re going to keep doing it after the sale to songtradr.
The loss of bandcamp’s independence is a tragedy
Agreed. There is an emerging trend among Fedi artists to use Faircamp, but it doesn’t exactly fill the same void.
I use Bandcamp instead of Spotify now, because that’s what most of my musician friends use to sell their music and recommend as the best way of supporting artists directly, and some of my favourite current artists are active on there. Yeah I can’t just stream and make playlists of whatever I want, and it’s more for new music than older stuff, but I can scroll through and play the suggested tracks which are far more interesting and diverse than anything Spotify would suggest to me, and then I can buy the stuff I really like. I’m slowly building up enough stuff that way to have an interesting collection on my phone to listen to, and it’s also introduced me to some really cool music that I wouldn’t have heard about from Spotify.
It’s looking like Bandcamp is going to get axed: Bandcamp lays off half its staff after buyout by Songtradr
Capitalism is a machine for producing tragedies.
The only silver lining is even if Bandcamp goes away, I can keep the music I bought on it. It’s all drm free. If a streaming service shuts down, you’re typically left with nothing despite having paid every month.
I hope Bandcamp survives, and somehow regains independence.
Bandcamp and Tidal. Please everyone, we need to kill Spotify, they hate artists.
Bandcamp was sold off without the unionized employees. If you’re doing this to be pro-labour, you can’t really support Bandcamp right now.
I know, but so far, it’s still the best way to give money to the creators. It’s basically 9:1 in favor of the artists when you buy an album… Hopefully a fair alternative will come up in a near future. Funkwhale is slowly getting better . Anyway, anything is better than Spotify.
I did, I cancelled Spotify and switched to Tidal because of this, and noted the reason in my exit survey.
I’m…not seeing the problem here. I’m fine with there being a minimum before a check is issued as long as the amount is reasonable, and $3 seems pretty reasonable.
That’s how it works with a lot of things, including advertising, referrals, etc.
Maybe I’m missing something?
It’s not a minimum before a check is issued. If you do not have a certain number of annual listeners on a track you never get paid out for it. If you had 100 tracks that were each streamed by 999 listeners who each streamed them 100 times per year every year, Spotify will no longer pay you a dime, ever.
I think a key point of confusion is in the way they presented it. They talk about how many songs have “less than 1000 listens” and that those would only make $3, but then their new policy is to deny payment for “less than 1000 listeners.” If each of those listeners streamed the song once per month, you’re talking closer to $40 than $3, and that’s on a per song basis.
People outraged by anything and not knowing enough to know to not be outraged.
Fuck em…
Just buy music directly from the artist whenever possible…Why are you not moving to a different distribution model where you’ll get what you’re worth? I’ll go where the music is. If you keep putting it on Spotify then I’ll play it on Spotify.
There are plenty of better ways to obtain music, such as actually buying the music instead of streaming it. And, hey, that’s like saying you’d stay on Reddit because that’s where the content is. Ethics should come before easy entertainment.
So, where do I buy the music? I’m not seeing an alternative being offered here.
Same as with most artists, go to their website and you’ll find the bandcamp/faircamp/etc page, in this case:
Just so I’m clear here - are you doubting the existence of websites where you can buy and download music? I have a feeling that is not what you mean but I also can’t really figure out another way to interpret this.
Spotify has the market pretty much cornered, though.
How is that going to help artists getting paid?
I usually use them to discover music. Then I make donations or buy merch/disks of the artists I really like.
Small stuff and when I can afford it, but I try to make my part
Of course you do.
