Yes. That’s how my phone is currently set up. My ex-wife is a psychopath, so everything gets recorded and backed up.
I want to love Graphene. I really do. But Jesus fucking christ, every thread the devs get involved with just seems like they’re sniffing their own farts over blatant refusal to implement a feature in any sensible way. System-wide hosts-based adblocking (DNS/always-on VPN is not a reasonable solution) and automatic call recording should be basic-ass features on a custom ROM of this caliber.
GrapheneOS is security-first and they’re very clear about this. Them adhering to their principles even if it means a bit more inconvenience isn’t “sniffing their own farts”.
If it isn’t for you, that’s fine. It was designed for joirnlists, whistleblowers and other people who could be targeted. And the team refusing to add stuff to protect them is absolutely legit.
I would like to appeal to you to be nicer to teams of foss-software. They could probably make a lot more money if they worked for a corporation. They could charge money for licences for grapheneos. But they don’t. They work on it and make it available for everyone simply from the goodness of their hearts.
It is their project, not ours. we aren’t entitled to anything. If we make demands and/or throw fits, we will simply demoralize them and cause them to quit developement, leaving us all as losers, without such a great project.
So instead of being negative and critizising them, I’d be happy if we could say thank you to @grapheneos@grapheneos.social . because their heartblood makes grapheneos what it is today and my phone a lot better.
Nowhere did I criticize the work they put into their ROM, nor demand that they add features (Volte when sir?). I have looked into modifying a stock ROM for my own tastes, and frankly, I simply don’t have the skills for that kind of thing. I absolutely respect the work that goes into FOSS projects and products, and donate when I am able.
That said, it’s entirely possible to both recognize the effort that goes to creating a custom ROM of this caliber, and also point out that the Graphene devs are, in fact, pompous assholes about it. Especially whenever someone brings up rooting it (and yes, I am aware of the security implications).
You don’t need to use a DNS service or VPN service to filter remotely. You can filter locally via the VPN service feature, including while using a VPN if you want.
You should follow our advice and do it with an app like RethinkDNS providing support for both local filtering and optionally using WireGuard VPNs at the same time including chained VPNs.
Why do you want to have a slow, legacy and hard to debug implementation of domain-based filtering instead of managing it with an app?
Domain-based filtering is also very limited in what it can since it’s trivially bypassed by apps or web sites using IPs or doing their own DNS resolution, which is fairly widely adopted. For example, WhatsApp will still work with the domains blocked. In practice, you’ll also only be filtering domains not used for useful functionality.
GrapheneOS does add call recording to our fork of AOSP Dialer. Unlike most alternate operating systems including LineageOS, we don’t limit the regions where it’s available. The fact that users are choosing to use it for specific calls means users are taking responsibility for the legality of recording that specific call and informing the other person of it. Automatic call recording would need more complexity to make it practical for people to comply with recording laws.
You can see from https://eylenburg.github.io/android/_comparison.htm that we have no limitations on call recording while others do. The fact that it’s manual means users are taking responsibility for it each time. It’s little different than recording a call with a tape recorder on speaker phone. If we did it automatically, then users would not be making a conscious decision to enable it case-by-case. That would be a problem, and not an acceptable way to do it without an extra explicit opt-in.
every thread the devs get involved with just seems like they’re sniffing their own farts
Dont get me wrong, I think you guys make a great ROM. However, no advice was requested here, yet you tagged me in multiple consecutive comments chock full of unsolicited advice. Plus, in the first comment, you suggested “RethinkDNS”, which depends on their own DNS servers. How do I know that this service, which I have literally never heard of in my 14 years of fucking with Android devices and ROMs and adblockers until maybe 6 months ago, isn’t just a honeypot? Or will even exist after Trump is done raping the USA? I see they use DNS over HTTPS, but I defer to my previous (rhetorical) question.
I wouldn’t think a security and privacy-focused ROM should be recommending anything but a locally hosted option. But as others have said, this is your guys’ project and you’re free to implement it how you see fit. And it is a solid ROM. But apparently it’s not for me.
@lka1988 We focus our effort on the base OS and areas which are not already covered by high quality open source apps. We don’t need to build our own domain-based filtering and blocklists for it because they already exist.
We have built-in content filtering in Vanadium based on EasyList + EasyPrivacy. That’s more usable (per-site toggle) and much less limited than what domain-based filtering can do but it’s still limited by needing to permit dual use functionality and is still easily bypassed.
Stock (for now), but rooted and modded slightly because I’m a firm proponent of owning the device for which I paid a shitload of money.
Which […] dnsblocking are you using?
I use hosts-based adblocking via AdAway (from F-Droid). Root required. Not the reason I rooted, but a nice benefit to having full and complete control of MY device.
Yes. That’s how my phone is currently set up. My ex-wife is a psychopath, so everything gets recorded and backed up.
I’ve got to ask you something here and it’ll probably sound weird, but here in the UK if you did that you’d probably be in for a hard time, legally standing recording others without informing them.
But I’m more curious how often you listen back to these phone calls since you say you record each one, and do you keep lots of them/off-site etc?
I’m also in a one-party consent country, and I’ve found it sometimes useful to get back to some calls just to find out some details, such as agreed date/time or some detail of a discussion I had with my mother. I would enjoy an automatic text translation to be stored alongside them.
I miss the feature now that I have Pixel 8.
I used syncthing to sync them to PC. Size-wise I have so few phone calls (work meetings excluded, which they are as they are over Slack/Teams) that all of them will fit most any modern phone easily.
I’ve got to ask you something here and it’ll probably sound weird, but here in the UK if you did that you’d probably be in for a hard time, legally standing recording others without informing them.
Not weird at all! I did my homework before implementing it. I’m in a single-party consent state (Utah), and so is my ex-wife (Idaho). No consent required as long as one party (I.e. me) is informed.
But I’m more curious how often you listen back to these phone calls since you say you record each one, and do you keep lots of them/off-site etc?
They’re recorded in .opus format, so a 5 minute call, for example, is barely 500 kilobytes. And yes I have reviewed many of them, especially during my divorce some years back. They are stored on my phone which 1) syncs to my NAS via Syncthing and 2) uploads to Google Drive tied to a Workspace account that I pay for.
I don’t hide the fact that I record my calls, everyone who knows me knows this fact, including my wife (I am happily remarried). I also back up my texts, going back almost a decade now, which came in handy during the divorce.
Don’t worry about that. I’ve already had to drag her to court when she tried to keep the kids with her last year, causing them to miss the first few weeks of school. The judge was not happy with her.
Yes. That’s how my phone is currently set up. My ex-wife is a psychopath, so everything gets recorded and backed up.
I want to love Graphene. I really do. But Jesus fucking christ, every thread the devs get involved with just seems like they’re sniffing their own farts over blatant refusal to implement a feature in any sensible way. System-wide hosts-based adblocking (DNS/always-on VPN is not a reasonable solution) and automatic call recording should be basic-ass features on a custom ROM of this caliber.
GrapheneOS is security-first and they’re very clear about this. Them adhering to their principles even if it means a bit more inconvenience isn’t “sniffing their own farts”.
If it isn’t for you, that’s fine. It was designed for joirnlists, whistleblowers and other people who could be targeted. And the team refusing to add stuff to protect them is absolutely legit.
I would like to appeal to you to be nicer to teams of foss-software. They could probably make a lot more money if they worked for a corporation. They could charge money for licences for grapheneos. But they don’t. They work on it and make it available for everyone simply from the goodness of their hearts.
It is their project, not ours. we aren’t entitled to anything. If we make demands and/or throw fits, we will simply demoralize them and cause them to quit developement, leaving us all as losers, without such a great project.
So instead of being negative and critizising them, I’d be happy if we could say thank you to @grapheneos@grapheneos.social . because their heartblood makes grapheneos what it is today and my phone a lot better.
Nowhere did I criticize the work they put into their ROM, nor demand that they add features (Volte when sir?). I have looked into modifying a stock ROM for my own tastes, and frankly, I simply don’t have the skills for that kind of thing. I absolutely respect the work that goes into FOSS projects and products, and donate when I am able.
That said, it’s entirely possible to both recognize the effort that goes to creating a custom ROM of this caliber, and also point out that the Graphene devs are, in fact, pompous assholes about it. Especially whenever someone brings up rooting it (and yes, I am aware of the security implications).
@lka1988 @pineapplelover
> System-wide hosts-based adblocking
That’s not a good way to do it.
> DNS/always-on VPN is not a reasonable solution
You don’t need to use a DNS service or VPN service to filter remotely. You can filter locally via the VPN service feature, including while using a VPN if you want.
You should follow our advice and do it with an app like RethinkDNS providing support for both local filtering and optionally using WireGuard VPNs at the same time including chained VPNs.
@lka1988 @pineapplelover
Why do you want to have a slow, legacy and hard to debug implementation of domain-based filtering instead of managing it with an app?
Domain-based filtering is also very limited in what it can since it’s trivially bypassed by apps or web sites using IPs or doing their own DNS resolution, which is fairly widely adopted. For example, WhatsApp will still work with the domains blocked. In practice, you’ll also only be filtering domains not used for useful functionality.
@lka1988 @pineapplelover
GrapheneOS does add call recording to our fork of AOSP Dialer. Unlike most alternate operating systems including LineageOS, we don’t limit the regions where it’s available. The fact that users are choosing to use it for specific calls means users are taking responsibility for the legality of recording that specific call and informing the other person of it. Automatic call recording would need more complexity to make it practical for people to comply with recording laws.
@lka1988 @pineapplelover
You can see from https://eylenburg.github.io/android/_comparison.htm that we have no limitations on call recording while others do. The fact that it’s manual means users are taking responsibility for it each time. It’s little different than recording a call with a tape recorder on speaker phone. If we did it automatically, then users would not be making a conscious decision to enable it case-by-case. That would be a problem, and not an acceptable way to do it without an extra explicit opt-in.
Thank you for proving my point:
Dont get me wrong, I think you guys make a great ROM. However, no advice was requested here, yet you tagged me in multiple consecutive comments chock full of unsolicited advice. Plus, in the first comment, you suggested “RethinkDNS”, which depends on their own DNS servers. How do I know that this service, which I have literally never heard of in my 14 years of fucking with Android devices and ROMs and adblockers until maybe 6 months ago, isn’t just a honeypot? Or will even exist after Trump is done raping the USA? I see they use DNS over HTTPS, but I defer to my previous (rhetorical) question.
I wouldn’t think a security and privacy-focused ROM should be recommending anything but a locally hosted option. But as others have said, this is your guys’ project and you’re free to implement it how you see fit. And it is a solid ROM. But apparently it’s not for me.
@lka1988
> Plus, in the first comment, you suggested “RethinkDNS”, which depends on their own DNS servers.
You do not need to use their DNS servers. You can use local filtering and your choice of DNS servers including the network provided ones.
> I wouldn’t think a security and privacy-focused ROM should be recommending anything but a locally hosted option.
We’re recommending using local filtering via RethinkDNS, not the RethinkDNS servers. They allow downloading the blocklists locally.
@lka1988 We focus our effort on the base OS and areas which are not already covered by high quality open source apps. We don’t need to build our own domain-based filtering and blocklists for it because they already exist.
We have built-in content filtering in Vanadium based on EasyList + EasyPrivacy. That’s more usable (per-site toggle) and much less limited than what domain-based filtering can do but it’s still limited by needing to permit dual use functionality and is still easily bypassed.
@lka1988
Which customrom and dnsblocking are you using?
Stock (for now), but rooted and modded slightly because I’m a firm proponent of owning the device for which I paid a shitload of money.
I use hosts-based adblocking via AdAway (from F-Droid). Root required. Not the reason I rooted, but a nice benefit to having full and complete control of MY device.
I’ve got to ask you something here and it’ll probably sound weird, but here in the UK if you did that you’d probably be in for a hard time, legally standing recording others without informing them.
But I’m more curious how often you listen back to these phone calls since you say you record each one, and do you keep lots of them/off-site etc?
I’m also in a one-party consent country, and I’ve found it sometimes useful to get back to some calls just to find out some details, such as agreed date/time or some detail of a discussion I had with my mother. I would enjoy an automatic text translation to be stored alongside them.
I miss the feature now that I have Pixel 8.
I used syncthing to sync them to PC. Size-wise I have so few phone calls (work meetings excluded, which they are as they are over Slack/Teams) that all of them will fit most any modern phone easily.
Again, thanks for the insight!
Did a little searching and it seems you could script this to transcribe your calls
https://github.com/openai/whisper
Not weird at all! I did my homework before implementing it. I’m in a single-party consent state (Utah), and so is my ex-wife (Idaho). No consent required as long as one party (I.e. me) is informed.
They’re recorded in
.opusformat, so a 5 minute call, for example, is barely 500 kilobytes. And yes I have reviewed many of them, especially during my divorce some years back. They are stored on my phone which 1) syncs to my NAS via Syncthing and 2) uploads to Google Drive tied to a Workspace account that I pay for.I don’t hide the fact that I record my calls, everyone who knows me knows this fact, including my wife (I am happily remarried). I also back up my texts, going back almost a decade now, which came in handy during the divorce.
Appreciate the insight, thank you!
Honestly I’d just suggest telling your ex-wife that it’s email only from now on.
Don’t worry about that. I’ve already had to drag her to court when she tried to keep the kids with her last year, causing them to miss the first few weeks of school. The judge was not happy with her.