If only there was a digital version of gold, that had a permanent record of everyone’s ownership right back to the first nugget of gold, that would be untouchable/secure in a collapse/near collapse scenario. Something that you could bring with you wherever you go in the world, yet no need to physically bring anything with you.
Man I would be investing in that so hard right now.
You mean Bitcoin, the imaginary thing that literally could be destroyed at any moment in time and the rich people use to manipulate their prices and game more money all the time? You mean that type of thing? Honestly gold is way better than investing in that.
Destroying Bitcoin would mean destroying the internet. Money will be the least of your problems when that happens. The price of Bitcoin being manipulated is not something that is inherent to Bitcoin. Anything that gets big enough will attract the big boys and they will try to manipulate anything for a little gain. Bitcoin being transparent, unmanipulatable and portable actually makes it better than gold though.
Major internet outages and blackouts, including across entire countries and continents, happen all the time. Your crypto is worthless numbers on a ledger when that happens.
the only thing that cryptocurrency lacks IMO is inherent value. there needs to be real use-cases for something to have value, at least in my imagination. i fail to see the use-case in cryptocurrency.
edit: Actually, there are some nice use-cases. like, iirc, “doge” uses an algorithm for mining that produces protein-folding-predictions as a side-result, which is useful in biochemistry and molecular biology, which could be used for new drugs for medicine.
Yes lol. But I’m way past the point that people’s opinions of it have any bearing on my decisions.
I’ve had this conversation a million times. You don’t understand Bitcoin, and that’s ok, I don’t mean it as an insult… it’s complicated. I can say that with 100% certainty based on your comments. This just means that there is more for me, at a cheaper price.
Yes there is manipulation going on, you’re not wrong. But where you are veering off track is where you throw out the concept because of it.
Money is manupulated. Constantly. That’s what happens with money. Bitcoin is no different.
Do you understand that Bitcoin has been around for 16 years, has never had an error or security breach (all cases of losing money are due to malicious actors or careless users), can send billions of dollars across the world for literal pennies, has over a TRILLUON dollars of market cap.
Please don’t get stuck in the early days mindset. If Bitcoin was “destroyable” it would have happened long ago, as the threat it poses to fiat based sovereign currencies is huge.
I know I’m not changing any minds, but you can’t say you didn’t have the opportunity. You’re standing in your own way.
Gold is good to invest in too now though! No shade on anyone who does that, just missing a better opportunity.
Bitcoin has been around for 16 years, has never had an error or security breach (all cases of losing money are due to malicious actors or careless users)
Let’s spice it up a bit! I have some cash in my trading account. Along with some Bitcoin in an exchange wallet.
You’ll just have to take my word, but gentleman’s honor I’m not joking. If you give me one example of a Bitcoin blockchain failure that resulted in loss of Bitcoin (strictly due to Bitcoin itself, no third party) I’ll sell all my exchange Bitcoin and make a $100 donation to a charity of your choice.
If you can’t, I’m buying $500 of Bitcoin with yet deeper conviction that the only ones who are disagreeing with me are people that don’t understand Bitcoin. Like actually understand, not just think and say they understand with Dunning-Kruger confidence.
Edit: I will even post the receipt here (to your charity)
Not only that but Bitcoin is very limited as far as where you can spend it not a lot of places take it in order to actually utilize it for the most part you have to trade that in for whatever current value it may be whether it’s $100 or $50,000 depending on how much the price has been manipulated at this point. And just like gold it’s volatile it’s going to all depend on what an arbitrary amount set is worth. And with more regulation Bitcoin becomes more and more useless as far as currency goes. I love Bitcoin I love crypto in general however I also realize how limited it is once you actually try to utilize it any sort of way. If somebody says hey I’m using it for my savings account and then next week that point is worthless because you can’t catch then and nobody’s willing to give you the actual money for it Cool you got a bunch of zeros and ones that are in your name and marked on a ledger someplace.
Golds utility as a currency is that it doesn’t tarnish or rust meaning you can keep it around for a long time and use it as an in-between unlike say food, it’s also generally lighter than cloth, manufactured goods, or raw materials. Same generally applies to silver, copper, and copper alloys, though to a lesser extent for copper and it’s derivatives though thats made up for by its recycling capacity and utilities.
Is there any value in being the hardest form of money in existence, objectively 🧐🧐🧐
Edit: the condescension is helpful in the long run. People hate Bitcoin/hate people who invest in Bitcoin are very unlikely to invest in Bitcoin. Therefore more for me, again!
Do you understand that Bitcoin has been around for 16 years, has never had an error or security breach (all cases of losing money are due to malicious actors or careless users), can send billions of dollars across the world for literal pennies, has over a TRILLUON dollars of market cap.
and you’re the one saying others don’t understand Bitcoin. smh.
Nah, you’ve refused to elaborate for anyone else in this thread, why would I explain myself for you? You’re literally lying about being a core Bitcoin dev, it’s pointless to even try to have a rational discussion with you. Goodbye!
Lol that’s my point. All of you are bullshitting about understanding Bitcoin, so I’ll bullshit too.
0% chance any of you grumpy yokels could explain how it works. 0% The only people I’ve ever met in my life who could actually explain how it works were investors and enthusiasts.
Every. Single. Person. I’ve ever met online or off who shit talks Bitcoin has never once been able to explain how it works. Because you can’t! If you could, you’d be singing a totally different tune.
Yeah yeah you actually know and you’ve studied it for 35 years and only you have figured out it’s a big scam and yada yada. I’ve seen this for almost a decade now.
Today’s not the day I meet the first person to understand Bitcoin and argue against it.
Well no shit. If your basis for understanding Bitcoin is arguing for it, then sure, you’ll never meet that person. You’ll have a bizarre definition of understanding that no one else will use, but at least your jimmies won’t be rustled.
What is this gibberish? I’ve read it 5 times and I have no idea what you’re saying. Maybe I am the dumb one.
I think I can kind of decipher what you’re trying to do here…like you’re trying to argue that my definition of someone who understands Bitcoin is someone who agrees with me. But that’s comically incorrect.
Let me rephrase: No one that shit talks Bitcoin can also describe how it functions. Throw out “understanding”. Just what is it, how does it work? Explain mining. Explain difficulty. How they work, not just what they are.
No one can do it. Again, if someone can both explain all of this accurately and then say Bitcoin is a scam/worthless/etc, I’ll eat my hat. Has never happened once.
Can you?
Edit: Downvoting is a particularly poor argument here 😂
Let me ask you this. If the hard drive that contains the private keys for your wallet is melted down to a liquid and allowed to cool, what is the value of that hard drive?
What would be the value of a gold coin given the same treatment?
Do most people have bars of gold sitting around? No. Do most people have gold jewelry like wedding rings and earrings and necklaces? Yes. Can those bars of gold sitting in banks be easily melted down into coins in the event of a society collapse? Yes. Can Bitcoin be usable at all without internet and power? No.
Hmmmm, so in this collapse scenario, there’s no internet or electricity, but somehow the infrastructure for melting gold, and the manufacture of things that require gold, just…keeps on ticking?
You think if we go back to unga bunga times we’re just going to melt down gold and start trading with each other?
That level of apocalypae and we will have way bigger and more urgent problems than trying to reimplement the gold standard in a world without electricity or internet.
Like yes, fire, yeah that’s correct it melts gold. But you really think that’s a strong argument for investing in gold over bitcoin?
Gold is also a shitty investment. But it’s a slightly better investment than Bitcoin. It has tangible value.
You’d be much better off investing that money in your community and building a robust support network, a small co-op to grow food, and find a secure source of clean water. If the kind of collapse people are talking about in this thread happens, no amount of Bitcoin or gold is going to be worth anything. But grain and water will be priceless.
The apocalypse thing is a stupid thought experiment at the end of the day. I think it’s fair to say gold would be better than Bitcoin in a total apocalypse scenario. But this isn’t why people buy Bitcoin. It’s not the collapse of civilization people are buying gold and bitcoin for, it’s the collapse of the US dollar (and all fiat currencies).
For that collapse scenario, which is exponentially more likely than the literal apocalypse, Bitcoin is king. It’s an objective fact. It’s literally the most logical solution to that problem. This isn’t to say that Bitcoin doesn’t have downsides. It does. But that doesn’t change the fact that it’s inevitable. That’s what most people can’t seem to wrap their heads around
I have gold and can transport it. We traded gold before we had an international banking structure. We don’t need electricity or the internet for the trade in gold.
Crypto has no utility. It cannot be transported as it isn’t a physical asset. It cannot be used for any other purpose eg you can’t make a hat out of BTC or ETH. Gold and crypto are not the same when it comes to their usability as a currency.
No they’re not the same, you’re correct. You’re totally incorrect that it has no utility. You honestly just don’t understand how it actually works. I really, strongly suggest understanding
I have spent 15 years following crypto. I promise you that I know how it works. The fact is the fanboys are the ones who are mistaken as so much of that scene is built by people who either know fuckall about currency policy or are scammers.
Just to hold you accountable, kindly give me a brief explanation of how bitcoin works. If you know how it works, you should be able to explain it, and if you use Google to explain it for you, you’ll defeat your own argument. So please, try if you don’t mind?
If only there was a digital version of gold, that had a permanent record of everyone’s ownership right back to the first nugget of gold, that would be untouchable/secure in a collapse/near collapse scenario. Something that you could bring with you wherever you go in the world, yet no need to physically bring anything with you.
Man I would be investing in that so hard right now.
Yes, the thing that doesn’t work in case of an internet or power outage. Yeah, that’s a good idea to use in societal collapse.
You mean Bitcoin, the imaginary thing that literally could be destroyed at any moment in time and the rich people use to manipulate their prices and game more money all the time? You mean that type of thing? Honestly gold is way better than investing in that.
Destroying Bitcoin would mean destroying the internet. Money will be the least of your problems when that happens. The price of Bitcoin being manipulated is not something that is inherent to Bitcoin. Anything that gets big enough will attract the big boys and they will try to manipulate anything for a little gain. Bitcoin being transparent, unmanipulatable and portable actually makes it better than gold though.
Major internet outages and blackouts, including across entire countries and continents, happen all the time. Your crypto is worthless numbers on a ledger when that happens.
🤣 every once in a while I read an extra special comment that makes me want to go buy more. This is definitely one of them.
Reads like a bot comment.
Sorry to disappoint!
What? we could easily keep the internet and have no crypto
the only thing that cryptocurrency lacks IMO is inherent value. there needs to be real use-cases for something to have value, at least in my imagination. i fail to see the use-case in cryptocurrency.
edit: Actually, there are some nice use-cases. like, iirc, “doge” uses an algorithm for mining that produces protein-folding-predictions as a side-result, which is useful in biochemistry and molecular biology, which could be used for new drugs for medicine.
Yes lol. But I’m way past the point that people’s opinions of it have any bearing on my decisions.
I’ve had this conversation a million times. You don’t understand Bitcoin, and that’s ok, I don’t mean it as an insult… it’s complicated. I can say that with 100% certainty based on your comments. This just means that there is more for me, at a cheaper price.
Yes there is manipulation going on, you’re not wrong. But where you are veering off track is where you throw out the concept because of it.
Money is manupulated. Constantly. That’s what happens with money. Bitcoin is no different.
Do you understand that Bitcoin has been around for 16 years, has never had an error or security breach (all cases of losing money are due to malicious actors or careless users), can send billions of dollars across the world for literal pennies, has over a TRILLUON dollars of market cap.
Please don’t get stuck in the early days mindset. If Bitcoin was “destroyable” it would have happened long ago, as the threat it poses to fiat based sovereign currencies is huge.
I know I’m not changing any minds, but you can’t say you didn’t have the opportunity. You’re standing in your own way.
Gold is good to invest in too now though! No shade on anyone who does that, just missing a better opportunity.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures
Give me one, single example, just one, of anyone who lost Bitcoin due to an error or issue with the blockchain. Just one please, thank you.
Moving the goal posts.
So you can’t, got it.
How exactly is that not relevant, the fact that you can’t answer this question? Goalposts my ass.
Let’s spice it up a bit! I have some cash in my trading account. Along with some Bitcoin in an exchange wallet.
You’ll just have to take my word, but gentleman’s honor I’m not joking. If you give me one example of a Bitcoin blockchain failure that resulted in loss of Bitcoin (strictly due to Bitcoin itself, no third party) I’ll sell all my exchange Bitcoin and make a $100 donation to a charity of your choice.
If you can’t, I’m buying $500 of Bitcoin with yet deeper conviction that the only ones who are disagreeing with me are people that don’t understand Bitcoin. Like actually understand, not just think and say they understand with Dunning-Kruger confidence.
Edit: I will even post the receipt here (to your charity)
I’m good.
Ok, I’m in on that. They are gonna need that money.
But I’m going to buy $400 of Bitcoin with the rest of that $500
If this is really your perspective then tone down the condescension. BTC is only viable due to the poor policies of the Trump administration.
Gold has utility. BTC has no usability beyond being a cryptocurrency. I can make things with gold.
Not only that but Bitcoin is very limited as far as where you can spend it not a lot of places take it in order to actually utilize it for the most part you have to trade that in for whatever current value it may be whether it’s $100 or $50,000 depending on how much the price has been manipulated at this point. And just like gold it’s volatile it’s going to all depend on what an arbitrary amount set is worth. And with more regulation Bitcoin becomes more and more useless as far as currency goes. I love Bitcoin I love crypto in general however I also realize how limited it is once you actually try to utilize it any sort of way. If somebody says hey I’m using it for my savings account and then next week that point is worthless because you can’t catch then and nobody’s willing to give you the actual money for it Cool you got a bunch of zeros and ones that are in your name and marked on a ledger someplace.
not really. IMHO gold is about as useful as aluminum or any other metal, i.e. $10/kg would be justified, but not $70k/kg, which it currently is.
like, $10/kg is real usefulness, the remaining $69990/kg are people’s irrational belief that gold is valuable somehow.
Golds utility as a currency is that it doesn’t tarnish or rust meaning you can keep it around for a long time and use it as an in-between unlike say food, it’s also generally lighter than cloth, manufactured goods, or raw materials. Same generally applies to silver, copper, and copper alloys, though to a lesser extent for copper and it’s derivatives though thats made up for by its recycling capacity and utilities.
Is there any value in being the hardest form of money in existence, objectively 🧐🧐🧐
Edit: the condescension is helpful in the long run. People hate Bitcoin/hate people who invest in Bitcoin are very unlikely to invest in Bitcoin. Therefore more for me, again!
Lol ok. Enjoy bud.
Yes, it is durable, portable and compact. We can all agree on the fact you can make things with it.
Is there any value in something that holds no real utility or real value?
There is tons of utility! Intrinsic value, not like gold no…but utility, absolutely.
No there is no utility. You cannot do anything with crypto whereas I can make all sorts of stuff from gold as it is a real physical object.
Do you invest in gold? Does your pension plan?
and you’re the one saying others don’t understand Bitcoin. smh.
Please, elaborate
Nah, you’ve refused to elaborate for anyone else in this thread, why would I explain myself for you? You’re literally lying about being a core Bitcoin dev, it’s pointless to even try to have a rational discussion with you. Goodbye!
Lol that’s my point. All of you are bullshitting about understanding Bitcoin, so I’ll bullshit too.
0% chance any of you grumpy yokels could explain how it works. 0% The only people I’ve ever met in my life who could actually explain how it works were investors and enthusiasts.
Every. Single. Person. I’ve ever met online or off who shit talks Bitcoin has never once been able to explain how it works. Because you can’t! If you could, you’d be singing a totally different tune.
Yeah yeah you actually know and you’ve studied it for 35 years and only you have figured out it’s a big scam and yada yada. I’ve seen this for almost a decade now.
Today’s not the day I meet the first person to understand Bitcoin and argue against it.
Well no shit. If your basis for understanding Bitcoin is arguing for it, then sure, you’ll never meet that person. You’ll have a bizarre definition of understanding that no one else will use, but at least your jimmies won’t be rustled.
What is this gibberish? I’ve read it 5 times and I have no idea what you’re saying. Maybe I am the dumb one.
I think I can kind of decipher what you’re trying to do here…like you’re trying to argue that my definition of someone who understands Bitcoin is someone who agrees with me. But that’s comically incorrect.
Let me rephrase: No one that shit talks Bitcoin can also describe how it functions. Throw out “understanding”. Just what is it, how does it work? Explain mining. Explain difficulty. How they work, not just what they are.
No one can do it. Again, if someone can both explain all of this accurately and then say Bitcoin is a scam/worthless/etc, I’ll eat my hat. Has never happened once.
Can you?
Edit: Downvoting is a particularly poor argument here 😂
Comments like this must go so hard if you’re stupid.
Dunning-Kruger strikes again.
That thing sounds like it needs a functioning internet and communications system. If society collapses I wouldn’t bet on the blockchain being usable.
And gold? A huge percentage of which people hold non-physically?
It’s almost like you can come up with arguments that NOTHING is safe without a functioning internet and communications system.
So…what’s the difference here?
Gold can exist physically, cryptocurrency cannot.
Just realized this is an extremely poor argument anyway…maybe “does not” instead of “cannot” will be helpful in understanding.
So it’s made of fairy dust, got it
What a wild thing to say about gold when you’re arguing in favor of cryptocurrency.
It would be wild, if that’s what actually happened
Edit: Do you have a charity picked out? Or shall I just go ahead and buy more Bitcoin?
Fairy dust, don’t be ridiculous. It’s Pixie dust.
Let me ask you this. If the hard drive that contains the private keys for your wallet is melted down to a liquid and allowed to cool, what is the value of that hard drive?
What would be the value of a gold coin given the same treatment?
I answered your question so maybe you’ll do me the honour of answering mine.
If someone breaks into your house and steals your gold coins, what value do they have to you?
If it burns down, how much will it cost to recoup all your gold back into a manageable, tradeable form?
Yes, you’re correct. A melted hard drive would not have the same value as a gold coin melted down.
What is your point?
Do most people have bars of gold sitting around? No. Do most people have gold jewelry like wedding rings and earrings and necklaces? Yes. Can those bars of gold sitting in banks be easily melted down into coins in the event of a society collapse? Yes. Can Bitcoin be usable at all without internet and power? No.
Hmmmm, so in this collapse scenario, there’s no internet or electricity, but somehow the infrastructure for melting gold, and the manufacture of things that require gold, just…keeps on ticking?
Umm… fire?
You think if we go back to unga bunga times we’re just going to melt down gold and start trading with each other?
That level of apocalypae and we will have way bigger and more urgent problems than trying to reimplement the gold standard in a world without electricity or internet.
Like yes, fire, yeah that’s correct it melts gold. But you really think that’s a strong argument for investing in gold over bitcoin?
Gold over Bitcoin? Yes.
Gold is also a shitty investment. But it’s a slightly better investment than Bitcoin. It has tangible value.
You’d be much better off investing that money in your community and building a robust support network, a small co-op to grow food, and find a secure source of clean water. If the kind of collapse people are talking about in this thread happens, no amount of Bitcoin or gold is going to be worth anything. But grain and water will be priceless.
We’re losing the plot here.
The apocalypse thing is a stupid thought experiment at the end of the day. I think it’s fair to say gold would be better than Bitcoin in a total apocalypse scenario. But this isn’t why people buy Bitcoin. It’s not the collapse of civilization people are buying gold and bitcoin for, it’s the collapse of the US dollar (and all fiat currencies).
For that collapse scenario, which is exponentially more likely than the literal apocalypse, Bitcoin is king. It’s an objective fact. It’s literally the most logical solution to that problem. This isn’t to say that Bitcoin doesn’t have downsides. It does. But that doesn’t change the fact that it’s inevitable. That’s what most people can’t seem to wrap their heads around
My sweet summer child. These things worked before the internet and will work without the internet.
Priceless 🤣
I have gold and can transport it. We traded gold before we had an international banking structure. We don’t need electricity or the internet for the trade in gold.
Crypto has no utility. It cannot be transported as it isn’t a physical asset. It cannot be used for any other purpose eg you can’t make a hat out of BTC or ETH. Gold and crypto are not the same when it comes to their usability as a currency.
No they’re not the same, you’re correct. You’re totally incorrect that it has no utility. You honestly just don’t understand how it actually works. I really, strongly suggest understanding
I have spent 15 years following crypto. I promise you that I know how it works. The fact is the fanboys are the ones who are mistaken as so much of that scene is built by people who either know fuckall about currency policy or are scammers.
Just to hold you accountable, kindly give me a brief explanation of how bitcoin works. If you know how it works, you should be able to explain it, and if you use Google to explain it for you, you’ll defeat your own argument. So please, try if you don’t mind?
Why would you have the right to hold me accountable? And hold me accountable for what?
I’ve created 16 blockchains and I’m one of Bitcoin’s core developers. Just trust me.
That’s what you’re doing
Objectively false
Lol sorry buddy but that’s true. Followed crypto for 15 years and the space is filled with guys who never took an economics course
To be fair, you’re not wrong about your point. But in this case it’s a matter of being correct despite themselves.
And again, crypto is not equal to Bitcoin. Bitcoin is crypto, but only Bitcoin is Bitcoin. Maybe I’ll be wrong, guess we will see