• NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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    7 hours ago

    And guess what paper products tend to be wrapped in until they are put in disorders /on shelves? I’ll give you a hint, it starts with a P

    • quick_snail@feddit.nl
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      7 hours ago

      Paper.

      Reams of printing paper are wrapped in paper. There stacks of reams are put in cardboard boxes, made of paper. Those are put in metal trucks.

      • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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        6 hours ago

        I would recommend going and actually looking at a stack of paper cups. They are pretty much universally in a plastic bag.

        Also, those cardboard (or even paper) boxes that printer paper come in? They get put in larger cardboard boxes and crates… which are generally wrapped in glorified plastic wrap before they get loaded into those metal trucks. And often stay wrapped on their pallets at the warehouse until they are set for their final destination.

        And, to be clear: That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It is effectively the idea behind electric cars. Move the pollution/recycling burden away from the end user and keep it at the distribution center/power plant where more expensive efforts can be done to reduce waste/pollution. And… much like with “clean coal”, the end result tends to be dumpsters full of plastic on their way to the landfill because recycling is effort.

        But the idea is sound. Use the more robust polymers for shipping and long term protection. I just… still think 50 days is too little for anything even remotely close to an end user without a LOT of extra coatings (for example: Those paper milk cartons tend to have a LOT of wax… or polymers) which kind of defeat the purpose.

        • quick_snail@feddit.nl
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          6 hours ago

          That wax can be natural and biodegradable. Pallets could be protected with hermetically sealed metal walls.

          We have no need for plastic. It’s only done because we haven’t banned companies from doing it.

          • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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            5 hours ago

            Sorry, you want to replace wooden pallets with hermetically sealed metal boxes? Maintenance costs go through the roof and it might be worth reading up on what they actually use to make those seals (hint: Polymer compounds). You also drastically increase the weight at every step AND add very significant logistics issues (can’t have crates too close to the door in case it is rainy). All of which translate to increased consumption of fossil fuels.

            Again: We don’t overuse polymers because of wanting a summer home in northern Canada. Polymers are used because of their materials properties being… quite frankly insane. Super light material that can take a beating while providing strong water/weather resistance. Like… your “let’s put things in a metal box” is already solved by just wrapping some fairly cheap plastic wrap around things. Shipping a hundred plastic bottles uses MUCH less energy/fuel than shipping a hundred glass bottles for weight of the bottles alone. And the glass bottles need significantly more packaging/protection to survive shipping which drastically increases costs on top of that.

            There is a LOT of room for improvement. EVERYONE hates paper straws but they are a really good idea that greatly reduces how much plastic ends up in a landfill. But people also rapidly realize that those paper straws need to be protected from creation to end use and… that is still going to be plastic. Optimally you are wrapping the box/stack instead of the individual straws so it is still a net gain, but… yeah.

            And there is a LOT of work going in to making greener plastics. But when you engineer out the material properties that made you use it in the first place… it is a cool novelty and great for marketing but it doesn’t really change the amount of plastics used in getting that to the point where someone feels good because they are using biodegradable utensils.