Russian company Neiry has tested pigeons as biodrones in Moscow, using neural implants and electronics to enhance their flight capabilities for various monitoring tasks.
  • worhui@lemmy.worldEnglish
    112·
    2 days ago

    This an an absolutely exceptional claim that would put the company decades beyond any tech I have seen. They are claiming remote control of a complicated animal in flight. They also claim it is without training and over distances impossible for a bird as small as a pigeon to carry radio gear.

    This is not believable without any evidence.

    • real_squids@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      81·
      2 days ago

      according to Forbes Russia and a company statement

      duh

      edit: as for radio, if it’s not required to be realtime it would make a lot of sense to carry sd cards instead, provides lower energy consumption too

        • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
          21·
          1 day ago

          You do, of course, understand that this has nothing in common with building a tank?

          You do also understand that (just guessing) if you’re from a German instance, then probably everyone of consequence involved in designing military hardware in Russia has better knowledge of their domain area than people analogous to them from German MIC and military? Simply due to experience gained. That does apply to tanks.

          Anyway. I don’t know if it’s real, but you just go and read whose company it is. It might be.

          • OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
            1·
            7 hours ago

            While it as has nothing directly to do with building a tank, the fact that russia can’t design and build a tank that doesn’t play turret toss when it gets hit with a shell or break down in the middle of a parade DOES have a lot in common with this - it’s called brain drain.

            Literally all of the smartest young people left Russia because the pay was bad and the prospects for living were better I’m the west.

            You say thag everyone of consequence involved in designing military equipment in russia has better knowledge than Germany? Due to what experience, getting their World War 2 era tanks pulled out of the mud by Ukrainian tractors? They can’t even build more than a handful of the newest tank and then never send them into war. They haven’t fielded new equipment eccept inaccurate artillery shells.

            You’re wanting to claim a country that experienced that amount of brain drain is can do cutting edge brain surgery?? What, did they lobotomize you first?

            • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
              1·
              2 hours ago

              the fact that russia can’t design and build a tank that doesn’t play turret toss when it gets hit with a shell or break down in the middle of a parade DOES have a lot in common with this - it’s called brain drain.

              Older Soviet tanks play turret toss, you know why? Their automatic loading system is optimized for fire rates, but not safety. You know why that and what that achieves? That achieves a whole lot of tanks built during Soviet times for mass ground warfare in the WWIII as it was imagined then. When it’s one safer NATO tank against 5 worse but comparable (and fast-firing) Soviet tanks for the same expense, the choice (with Soviet doctrine) is obvious.

              There was no brain drain then, these were all conscious design decisions making a difference of the scale of hundreds of tanks built.

              Literally all of the smartest young people left Russia because the pay was bad and the prospects for living were better I’m the west.

              Unfortunately no.

              You say thag everyone of consequence involved in designing military equipment in russia has better knowledge than Germany? Due to what experience, getting their World War 2 era tanks pulled out of the mud by Ukrainian tractors?

              You are a few years late even in talking about tanks.

              That’s also something most Russians have passively understood by now about modern warfare, it’s all about information, planning, coordination done by many small drones, with humans reduced to techs and operators and, of course, small assault groups. Tanks have no place in that.

              You’re wanting to claim a country that experienced that amount of brain drain is can do cutting edge brain surgery??

              Brain drain is something that was happening when plenty of Soviet-educated engineers and scientists simply had no place in ex-Soviet countries, or by any measure the offers they could get were far better in the West. Right now there’s no coordinated incentive for said brain drain from the western governments. Which was a thing then.

              Right now - yes, I think oil money that buys western components for weapons can buy expertise in areas of interest.

      • worhui@lemmy.worldEnglish
        12·
        2 days ago

        This is a remote control situation. The bird would do bird things once out of a control signal. They aren’t claiming full override and programming. I could easily see strapping a camera to a pigeon and training it. Maybe even remotely monitoring it and using a pre-trained electrical pulse to change direction.

        These claims are beyond that. This is possibly the equivalent of scientist cures cancer where a reported misunderstands what is actually being presented.

        • real_squids@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          11·
          2 days ago

          yea true, they did mention preloading flight paths, so it might be radio-less (apart from gps ig)

    • sqgl@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
      21·
      1 day ago

      Indeed “thousands of km” is far fetched:

      some of which are expected to be sent thousands of kilometers away while others remain in Moscow for further trials.

      • Cocodapuf@lemmy.worldEnglish
        11·
        1 day ago

        Well… The electronics are solar powered, so it’s not like batteries would run out. I’m not sure there are really limits on the flight range of a pigeon. I have to assume they’d be allowed to eat.

        I don’t think they could cross an ocean.

          • Cocodapuf@lemmy.worldEnglish
            11·
            1 day ago

            I have no idea, controlling an animal’s brain is obviously the hard part too believe. But I don’t see how that affects their range. It’s a bird, birds naturally migrate thousands of miles.

            • Yggnar@lemmy.worldEnglish
              32·
              1 day ago

              It would effect their range because they would either need heavy equipment, like a fuckin star link dish strapped to their backs, or heavy radio equipment of some kind or something. Even if the “brain chip” is microscopic, you still need it to be able to send and receive a signal I would think, unless they intend to just operate it when it happens to be near a WiFi signal or something I guess?

              • Cocodapuf@lemmy.worldEnglish
                22·
                13 hours ago

                Cruise missiles often use pre-programmed guidance systems, or total automation with just set of GPS waypoints to reach. That’s a pretty sensible appropriate because the nature of the device is as a long range weapon that often ventures far into enemy territory. If you needed to stay in constant communication, radio jamming would become a serious liability. I’d imagine this is very similar in its design goals, so they’d likely use a similar approach.

                At any rate, I don’t expect the guidance to be the hard part, GPS navigation is not that hard to implement. (or GLONASS, in this particular case)

                Also… If the US were doing this, they actually could use star link. Star link direct to cell phone connectivity is actually in beta right now and it works. If the pigeon could carry a striped down iPhone (it doesn’t need a screen, speaker, microphone, etc), then it could actually carry a communications device that could be in constant contact. I wouldn’t recommend Russia try that on starlink though, given that it’s an American company.

    • moonshadow@slrpnk.netEnglish
      3·
      2 days ago

      If it’s like the bug experiments, they aren’t controlling its muscles granularly but guiding the whole critter through pain/aversion. Going left hurts, bird goes right type deal

    • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
      22·
      1 day ago

      I’ve heard of the particular people behind that particular company achieving similar things 12 years ago with, eh, humans. That’s of the “bloody regime horror stories” genre. There will be no proof.

      Also honestly

      would put the company decades beyond any tech I have seen

      why not? They have plenty of money and expertise. Something you don’t want to believe? Too bad, neither do I.

  • ToTheGraveMyLove@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    19·
    2 days ago

    The company plans to use the biodrones for extended monitoring of power transmission lines, gas distribution nodes and other infrastructure, as well as for environmental surveys, industrial inspections, search-and-rescue missions and additional security monitoring

    Sure thing buddy. We all know what these are actually for you colossal piece of shit.

  • voidsignal@lemmy.worldEnglish
    11·
    2 days ago

    Then tomorrow they’ll invent teleportation during lunch break. Russia is such an advanced state, and defintely not shithole running out a cash propaganda machine governed by a stupid afraid-of-death human stain

  • DeathsEmbrace@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2·
    1 day ago

    Stop these bots. Show me something concrete. No actual showcases or even knowledge behind this means its just words.

    • in_my_honest_opinion@piefed.socialEnglish
      7·
      2 days ago

      From the article

      The rat has already correctly answered hundreds of scientific questions - about quasars, myelin shells, Python and Albert Einstein’s birthday. The experiment continues every day, the number of rats with a neural interface is also growing.

      Pile it High and Deep PHD work.

  • MrFappy@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5·
    2 days ago

    This will lead to unintended consequences of Russian citizens killing any bird they see, which will mirror the Chinese famine from years ago where they did the same, but that led to an increase of crop killing insects which led to widespread famine.

  • Sims@lemmy.mlEnglish
    2·
    2 days ago

    Ha ha, I can’t believe anyone would still peddle this dumb propaganda nonsense :-) Come on OP, can we move on from that embarrassing con-job already ?

    • sqgl@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
      51·
      1 day ago

      Upon reflection, I agree it is probably just propaganda. Should I leave the post up though?

      The top comment here is making valid points casting doubt on its veracity. Isn’t that a good thing?

  • bleistift2@sopuli.xyzEnglish
    3·
    2 days ago

    I would like to go back to the times when I could easily tell a joke from reality. To go, please.