Berlin’s immigration authorities are moving to deport four young foreign residents on allegations related to participation in protests against Israel’s war on Gaza, an unprecedented move that raises serious concerns over civil liberties in Germany.

The deportation orders, issued under German migration law, were made amid political pressure and over internal objections from the head of the state of Berlin’s immigration agency.

The internal strife arose because three of those targeted for deportation are citizens of European Union member states who normally enjoy freedom of movement between E.U. countries. None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.

“What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”

    • reiterationstation@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      6 hours ago

      Israel the kings of the world?

      Nah if the USA gets blamed (deserved) Germany gets fucking blamed (also deserved as the original fucking Nazis they shouldn’t have been forgiven, either).

  • asg101@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    44
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    12 hours ago

    International law: Conducting and Support of Genocide is Illegal.

    U.S./Germany law: Protesting Genocide is Illegal.

    • 404UsernameNotFound@lemmy.wtf
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      8 hours ago

      The challenge lies in the fact that criticism of Israel is often intertwined with accusations of anti-Semitism. Germany finds itself in a delicate position: on one hand, it has pledged unwavering support to the state of Israel; on the other hand, it must uphold the right to dissent and allow protests against Israeli policies.

      • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        7 hours ago

        It’s not delicate at all.

        If you don’t stick to your values when they’re being tested, they’re not values: they’re hobbies.

        —Jon Stewart

        • 404UsernameNotFound@lemmy.wtf
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          6 hours ago

          I don’t understand how the quote applies to the situation described. Germany has a deep responsibility to support Israel because of its history with the Holocaust. However, it also believes in free speech and the right to protest. The challenge is balancing these two—supporting Israel while allowing criticism of its policies without crossing into anti-Semitism.

          • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            4 hours ago

            No, Germany feels a responsibility to help Jews as reparations for the holocaust. Not a blank check to the rightwing Israeli government or giving them a pass when they violate international law. And certainly not violating Germany’s free speech laws by arresting nonviolent protestors condemning a foreign government for their war crimes. There’s no challenge here unless you think every protestor is an anti-Semite.

      • nomoregerm@lemmy.cafe
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        5 hours ago

        You say that as if they were equals. The antisemitism is supporting Israel. They are the rich Jews who paid the Nazis for the right to bail like coward, which at least partly funded the Holocaust. Then, Germany left the Jews without citizenship until 1948. They basically solved the JewiSh QueStiOn by deporting them where they come from.

        Maybe Germany’s commitment should go toward preventing mass killing more than protecting a specific ethnic group.

        And and don’t get me started on how much money the Germans have made sending weapons for the genocide. This is just a subsidy to their weapon industry at this point

      • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        6 hours ago

        Choosing between an incredibly bad lie to commit genocide and not committing genocide must be a hard choice for Germany, knowing their history and regret for their previous genocide

        No wait, Germany is supporting genocide again.

        “Germany has pledged unwavering support to a genocidal colonial apartheid” really is not the own Germans think it is.

        • 404UsernameNotFound@lemmy.wtf
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          5 hours ago

          The world is far too nuanced to be categorized as merely good or evil, as you suggest. Following the atrocities of the Holocaust during World War II, Germany has assumed a profound moral and political obligation to safeguard and support the state of Israel, a commitment that remains a cornerstone of its foreign policy.

          Yes, Germany has expressed strong support for Israel during the ongoing conflict, primarily through diplomatic efforts and humanitarian aid to Gaza.

          • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOP
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            3 hours ago

            Nuance for genocide what is next nuance for Adolf Hitler? “Well he did kill all those Jews but you have to remember he was denied his art education!”

            Here is a good rule to live by:

            Genocide bad.

  • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    21
    ·
    12 hours ago

    If those EU citizens take it to EU court they’d probably win very easily. Can’t just take away freedom of movement, one of the tenets of the Union, without any due process. Seriously fuck the German politicians who pressured for this. Guess fascism is making a return, didn’t even need the AfD for that.

      • index@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        11 hours ago

        well known russia supporter

        Never supported the russian government in any of the comments i ever made. You sound brainwashed on propaganda.

        • ubergeek@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          10 hours ago

          Everything anti-genocide is apparently pro-Russia… I’ve been accused of being a tanky, and a Russian shill; and well, I’m most certainly neither of them.

        • index@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          11 hours ago

          I’m sure i’ve even commented before that they should kill putin but according to the propaganda you must have it tattoed on your body or it doesn’t count and you are still a russian troll.

        • Mubelotix@jlai.lu
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          12 hours ago

          Look further, he comments a lot. He tries more and more to conceal his views

          • 5gruel@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            12 hours ago

            Also had a look at their comment history, does not look very damning to me. Can you link a comment you are referring to?

    • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      19 hours ago

      “I think re-arming doesn’t do anything but spend money that could be better spent on helping people.”

      “Shut up, this is exactly what we need right now!”

      “So you don’t care about helping people?”

      “That’s a strawman!”

      Wow it looks like we were right again, but still downvoted and removed. Odd how that always works.

  • truthfultemporarily@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    151
    arrow-down
    23
    ·
    1 day ago

    If you search for it, its only reported by two outlets. There is not a single German newspaper reporting this, including left wing or Berlin regional ones. Searching for the names in the articles returns no results linked to Berlin or Free Palestine at all. The name of the public official also turns up nothing.

    Could be misinformation.

  • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    58
    arrow-down
    20
    ·
    1 day ago

    Fash support fash. Germany has been supporting genocide for a long time.

    It’s really amazing how liberals will completely accept genocide up until the very second that it affects them.

    • Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      27
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      1 day ago

      It is heart breaking to see Germany begin to give in to fascism again. What happened to “never again!” ???

      • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        14 hours ago

        People started to claim that the people did the thing that was supposed to never happen again did them with no moral self-justifications. This lead to the same evil people getting away with evil yet again if they pull out a (usually fabricated) crime statistics, etc.

      • Tryenjer@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        16
        arrow-down
        10
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        It was a lie.

        And in a decade or so, before you know it, Deutschland will be invading Poland again.

        • WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          11 hours ago

          My prediction, built on assuming we’re in the stupidest timeline, is that Germany will try to help the Palestinians…by carving a new homeland for them out of Poland.

    • explodicle@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      1 day ago

      Look, if we don’t tolerate at least a little genocide of somebody else, then we’re basically throwing our votes away. /s

  • jagermo@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    38
    arrow-down
    15
    ·
    edit-2
    1 day ago

    I have some notes on that. 3 of the 4 are EU citizens, that makes deportations highly complicated. I also can’t find another source, and the intercept has a history of pushing some shady things. Something feels off.

    • LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      1 day ago

      What shady stuff have they published in the past? I’ve generally found their coverage good and they often cover stories like this that other mainstream sources won’t.

      • jagermo@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 day ago

        You are right, I thought that Greenwald was still involved, but left in 2020. i did not like his downplaying of the trump Putin friendship

    • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 days ago

      They are naming the people being deported, maybe one of our German friends can dig up some German articles with their names?

      The four people slated for deportation, Cooper Longbottom, Kasia Wlaszczyk, Shane O’Brien, and Roberta Murray, are citizens of, respectively, the U.S., Poland, and in the latter two cases Ireland.

        • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          18
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          1 day ago

          Thanks. It is possible the American student contacted TheIntercept first. If TheIntercept is the first source then German media will likely pick up the story soon.

          I also searched for the lawyer

          “What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”

          Apparently Alexander Gorski is the same person who overturned Ghassan Abu-Sittah’s ban from Germany which does lend a lot of credibility unless TheIntercept is straight up making up quotes from people out of thin air.

          The International Centre of Justice for Palestinians (ICJP) announced in a social media post on Tuesday that it, along with lawyer Alexander Gorski and the European Legal Support Centre, had successfully challenged the travel ban imposed on Abu Sitta by Germany.

      • Yareckt@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        1 day ago

        Good call. I’ve tried searching for their namens and some other related keywords in german but couldn’t find any secondary sources. Only two other newssites that basically copied the intecept verbatim. So for now I wouldn’t believe it

        • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 day ago

          The first thing I do when negative news about Israel is published is question the source as well. Israel and Germany would never violate international law.

          • GreyAlien@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            6 hours ago

            Isn’t it weird that all these individuals are coming in droves to the comments to cast doubts on the veracity of an article from reputable journal? Almost feels like a coordinated effort.

            Edit: Thread on europe experienced a similar situation.

            • Yareckt@lemmynsfw.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              11 hours ago

              Nope I just thought it was wird that no other oulet was reporting in this. Since then they have picked up the story and got confirmation on the story indepentanly. But it was weird that something of this magnitude wasn’t picked up by anyone immeadeatly. I also would have believed it if the intercept linked to some sources but they didn’t. Probably because there were none that were public ally accessible. It sometimes happens that newsstorys get out that are false so I’ve made it a rule of mine to not trust story’s of significant magnitude when there is only one source.

              • GreyAlien@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                10 hours ago

                Never seen an other story as downplayed as this one though.

                You weren’t the only one to discuss the credibility of an already proven reliable journal.

                It shifts the conversation from talking about the deportation of EU citizens to “this looks fake”, “it’s misinformation”… also this post has been heavily downvoted.

                Just weird.

                • Yareckt@lemmynsfw.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  8 hours ago

                  For me personally I can say that I do not read the intercept often enough to have a grasp on how reliable they are. So the publishers name and it’s associated clout alone wasn’t enough for me to believe the story’s content. If you are more familiar with them then maybe that’s why our initial reactions to the story were different. Imho it’s ok to focus on a storys credibility first before discusing it’s content. Even if the contents message transports the right message. In hindsight it was bad of couse but hindsight is 20/20. Anyone who down votes this just because it may be false is overreacting though since it’s understandable that the intercept couldn’t link to any external sources here.

    • amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      1 day ago

      although this article is republished from the Intercept, here’s some info about the author:

      Hanno Hauenstein is a Berlin-based independent journalist and author. His work has appeared in publications including The Guardian, The Intercept, and Berliner Zeitung.

    • truthfultemporarily@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      1 day ago

      Yeah nothing in the taz - Germanys biggest left wing newspaper. Nothing in the Zeit and nothing in Tagespiegel (Berlin Newspaper) either.

        • truthfultemporarily@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          11 hours ago

          Hi, a bunch of other newspapers have now reported this. They have independently verified it, including with the courts. Ex: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/nach-beteiligung-an-palastina-protesten-in-berlin-drei-eu-burgern-und-einem-studenten-aus-den-usa-droht-ausweisung-13468543.html

          Laut der Gerichtssprecherin hat das LEA den drei EU-Bürgern attestiert, sie seien eine „gegenwärtige Gefahr für die öffentliche Sicherheit und Ordnung“. Gestützt werde dies auf mehrere Strafverfahren mit Bezug zum Nahostkonflikt.

          Dabei gehe es um Widerstand gegen Vollzugsbeamte nach Auflösung von Demonstrationen, Beleidigung, besonders schwerer Landfriedensbruch und die Verwendung von Kennzeichen terroristischer Organisationen, darunter auch der Spruch „From the River to the Sea“. Alle Personen seien, so der Vorwurf der Ausländerbehörde, Mitglieder einer gewaltbereiten Gruppe der propalästinensischen Szene, sagte die Gerichtssprecherin.

      • fantasty@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        Then it must be fake news and the >1000 people that got killed since the end of the ceasefire and the deliberate mass starvation of the people in Gaza who have to survive on a bowl of rice per day, all that isn’t happening right?

        Because I don’t see any news about that at all by our oh so holy liberal left wing academic journalists. The bubble you live in is pathetic, don’t make it sound like all of us in Germany are as bigoted and blind to the amount of suffering our political and media elites are causing to the Palestinians through constant dehumanization and outright support of the genocide against them. I hate to live in the same country as people like you.

        • brbposting@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 day ago

          Heart. You’ve got it. It’s in the right place.

          If I may offer my perspective-

          My natural response here is “wow thank you for doing the legwork, maybe a German article will be posted later tonight, let’s check back“

          • fantasty@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            14 hours ago

            Thanks! Tough to do it sometimes but I don’t want this to become like Reddit or leave the narrative to people who dismiss anything they don’t like to hear as fake news. It’s enough that Trump made this a thing, I don’t think we need it here, especially in this case where imo there was never any evidence for this being fake news and now there’s indeed more articles.

        • truthfultemporarily@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          1 day ago

          I am sorry you cannot see the difference between an article that has not been corroborated and people claiming there is no genocide in Gaza.

  • But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    23
    arrow-down
    8
    ·
    1 day ago

    Germany likes to pretend they’re super liberal and that they have no fascist citizens. They’ve gone completely to the other side of history where they now pretend like they’re above it all. I’m sick of people pretending like Germany is some sort of promised land

    • Yareckt@lemmynsfw.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      1 day ago

      I am a German citizen and we do not pretend we don’t have fascist citizens. Why do you think we do?

      • But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        Because everything we hear in Canada about Germany is lollipop propaganda about how perfect Germany is. You don’t see it from the inside but to the rest of us, the German government spends money to make themselves look like the country everyone should strive to be. You’re part of the machine so it’s no surprise you’re not aware of how others perceive you.

        We are literally told that any Nazi or fascist activity is banned and illegal, and not allowed. yet i see plenty of photos of German neo Nazi rallies

        • Yareckt@lemmynsfw.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          ·
          1 day ago

          Oh interesting. Can you tell me what they are Spending the money on? I know of DW who often pushes german Propaganda but I think in the whole picture of the news media their reach is relatively small compared to other news outlets’ reach.

          But I still don’t think we pretend there aren’t any Nazis in Germany. You may have missed it or the news hasn’t reached you ;) but there was a big wave of protests in 2024 against rightwing extremism here Wikipedia no need to read it all but you can scroll down to the list of protests and look at the participant amounts.

      • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        B/c USA is brainwashed by the zionism that Germany supports. We’re raised thinking that Germany changed and is now a leader in anti-semitism, etc. It’s brainwashing.

        But anybody with a clue, including many Germans, realizes that their zionism is still anti-semitic AF. It’s an attack on non-fascist jews and a literal genocide against palestinians.