Homosexuality used to be classified as a mental illness too. Why couldn’t it be treated through therapy? Perhaps because in both cases conversion therapy: 1) doesn’t work 2) is insanely unethical and seeks to use science as a weapon to enforce conformity 3) does not actually advance the care of the individual.
A person with gender dysphoria can spend their entire life repressing it, battling against it, and not get to feel present in their own life. The so-called John 50s. Or they can be given hormones and ADDRESS the incongruence directly.
Look at the case of David Reimer for example. You cannot force someone to live in a gender role that was assigned to them if it doesn’t match who they are, whether it’s by man or by nature.
The reason you have to resort to strawmen is because the things you describe just don’t happen. So what difference does it make to you that the guy you walk past in the grocery store is trans? Same as the difference it makes to you that someone else is gay.
And what difference do you make to them?
You advance a world that’s hostile to them. You make their life harder. You make them into a group of people who need to win the right to exist.
I encourage you to reconsider your views, not from a place of picking holes in arguments, but from a place of love for your fellow man.
So basically everything that you said doesn’t address a single thing in my comment.
You’re simply Gish galloping at the moment going from one thing to the other.
Is there anything specifically you would like to address about my comment.
Specifically how the mental illness of gender dysphoria debunks the “I identify as” in the trans community in a relation to the comment that was responding to?
Also stop using the term straw man you don’t know what it means none of you know what it means most of the internet doesn’t know what it means you just heard it on some YouTube debunking videos.
Nope. It doesn’t debunk anything. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, yes, but it is not the same thing as being trans, it is a possible consequence of being trans .
Not everyone who’s trans has that mental illness, but I guess they share the feeling, that they don’t want to express the gender identity of their assigned gender very strongly. So your strawman of the person who does everything in their control to appear as a masculine manly-man and to fit a masculine sterotype, while they identify as a woman is highly unlikely.
I know perfectly well, what a straw man is. But I’m not gonna argue about it and leave the de-railing to you.
The point is, that your example is a made up fantasy, that never happened and you’re arguing against it to support your stance, while no one ever pleaded for that case. Doesn’t matter what we call it, it’s bullshit rhethoric either way. And it doesn’t make you look like someone who’s arguing in good faith.
Your news article also doesn’t support your fantasy. None of the people in this article are wearing flannel shirts or scraggly beards, basically it doesn’t tell us anything about the gender expression of these people at all. The only thing male about them is their genitalia (which is biological sex, not gender), and while I can understand, that this leads to confusion in an all naked spa, it is a completely different thing, than what you initially argued against.
Also your source is pretty obviously biased against trans people, their wording makes that clear.
gender is a societal role, stuff like “males are supposed to be strong and emotionally distant” and “females are supposed to be beautiful and submissive to males”.
one does not necessarily have to lead into the other equivalent. why can’t men wear dresses and makeup? what makes something “boyish” or “girly”? why does a “male” or “female” label define what a person can and cannot do for the rest of their life? do they not get a say in what they want to be defined as?
the only, only useful thing about biological sex labels is for medical and sexual purposes, and yet we base almost everything else in life and society around it. that’s just an inefficient use of space on an ID card.
I fully understand what gender and sex are and agree with the definitions.
I fully support the trans community and people should dress in anyway they want to. The general crux of my argument was about how muddled the language has become.
Man and woman have lost some of their discriptive nature. As a society that uses spoken language words have to have meaning.
There is a disconnect between what people want to be and what people are. And for some reason when this aspect is brought up people become offended.
Being what one is and wanting to be something else are different things. I want to be rich yet I am poor.
People being a “man” or “woman” going around saying they’re not or are something else is confusing and only adds to the negative political nature of this topic.
Why is this issue only localized to gender and sex why not to species? If people called themselves dogs how would that effect the understand of those words?
Matt the idiot Walsh goes around asking aboriginals in Africa to define what a woman is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen btw.
In the eyes of a stranger people are what they appear to be. If one looks like a man I will call them sir. If one looks like a woman I will call them ma’am. I’m not being offensive, I’m just trying to be polite.
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Why can’t people call themselves whatever gender they identify as?
Explain to me what the problem with that is.
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Look up what gender dysphoria is, if you really want to understand what’s going on.
This is also the reason, why your completely made up example never happens.
The person in that example idientifies as a straw man, and nothing else.
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Homosexuality used to be classified as a mental illness too. Why couldn’t it be treated through therapy? Perhaps because in both cases conversion therapy: 1) doesn’t work 2) is insanely unethical and seeks to use science as a weapon to enforce conformity 3) does not actually advance the care of the individual.
A person with gender dysphoria can spend their entire life repressing it, battling against it, and not get to feel present in their own life. The so-called John 50s. Or they can be given hormones and ADDRESS the incongruence directly.
Look at the case of David Reimer for example. You cannot force someone to live in a gender role that was assigned to them if it doesn’t match who they are, whether it’s by man or by nature.
The reason you have to resort to strawmen is because the things you describe just don’t happen. So what difference does it make to you that the guy you walk past in the grocery store is trans? Same as the difference it makes to you that someone else is gay.
And what difference do you make to them? You advance a world that’s hostile to them. You make their life harder. You make them into a group of people who need to win the right to exist.
I encourage you to reconsider your views, not from a place of picking holes in arguments, but from a place of love for your fellow man.
So basically everything that you said doesn’t address a single thing in my comment.
You’re simply Gish galloping at the moment going from one thing to the other.
Is there anything specifically you would like to address about my comment.
Specifically how the mental illness of gender dysphoria debunks the “I identify as” in the trans community in a relation to the comment that was responding to?
Also stop using the term straw man you don’t know what it means none of you know what it means most of the internet doesn’t know what it means you just heard it on some YouTube debunking videos.
Nope. It doesn’t debunk anything. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, yes, but it is not the same thing as being trans, it is a possible consequence of being trans .
Not everyone who’s trans has that mental illness, but I guess they share the feeling, that they don’t want to express the gender identity of their assigned gender very strongly. So your strawman of the person who does everything in their control to appear as a masculine manly-man and to fit a masculine sterotype, while they identify as a woman is highly unlikely.
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I know perfectly well, what a straw man is. But I’m not gonna argue about it and leave the de-railing to you.
The point is, that your example is a made up fantasy, that never happened and you’re arguing against it to support your stance, while no one ever pleaded for that case. Doesn’t matter what we call it, it’s bullshit rhethoric either way. And it doesn’t make you look like someone who’s arguing in good faith.
Your news article also doesn’t support your fantasy. None of the people in this article are wearing flannel shirts or scraggly beards, basically it doesn’t tell us anything about the gender expression of these people at all. The only thing male about them is their genitalia (which is biological sex, not gender), and while I can understand, that this leads to confusion in an all naked spa, it is a completely different thing, than what you initially argued against.
Also your source is pretty obviously biased against trans people, their wording makes that clear.
Ok, let’s say someone does walk up to me wearing overalls and a flannel shirt with a huge scraggly beard and says they identify as a woman.
How exactly does that impact any of us negatively?
Nothing.
What does your comment have to with the language being confusing?
you’re mixing up sex and gender.
sex is the genitals you are born with.
gender is a societal role, stuff like “males are supposed to be strong and emotionally distant” and “females are supposed to be beautiful and submissive to males”.
one does not necessarily have to lead into the other equivalent. why can’t men wear dresses and makeup? what makes something “boyish” or “girly”? why does a “male” or “female” label define what a person can and cannot do for the rest of their life? do they not get a say in what they want to be defined as?
the only, only useful thing about biological sex labels is for medical and sexual purposes, and yet we base almost everything else in life and society around it. that’s just an inefficient use of space on an ID card.
I fully understand what gender and sex are and agree with the definitions.
I fully support the trans community and people should dress in anyway they want to. The general crux of my argument was about how muddled the language has become.
Man and woman have lost some of their discriptive nature. As a society that uses spoken language words have to have meaning.
There is a disconnect between what people want to be and what people are. And for some reason when this aspect is brought up people become offended.
Being what one is and wanting to be something else are different things. I want to be rich yet I am poor.
People being a “man” or “woman” going around saying they’re not or are something else is confusing and only adds to the negative political nature of this topic.
Why is this issue only localized to gender and sex why not to species? If people called themselves dogs how would that effect the understand of those words?
Matt the idiot Walsh goes around asking aboriginals in Africa to define what a woman is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen btw.
In the eyes of a stranger people are what they appear to be. If one looks like a man I will call them sir. If one looks like a woman I will call them ma’am. I’m not being offensive, I’m just trying to be polite.
Because you’re demanding I submit myself to a lifetime of harassment, abuse, and violence simply to appease your epistemological pedantry.
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