• plyth@feddit.org
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    12 hours ago

    They don’t have those plans. That’s insinuated to distract from what the minister actually said and implied.

    I have poined this out in the other post: https://feddit.org/post/15221478

    This article is slightly misleading if compared with the SCMP article which has big implications on understanding the global power dynamics. Draw your own conclusions.

    SCMP:

    Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told the European Union’s top diplomat on Wednesday that Beijing does not want to see a Russian loss in Ukraine because it fears the United States would then shift its whole focus to Beijing, according to several people familiar with the exchange.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/china-tells-eu-it-cannot-afford-russian-loss-ukraine-war-sources-say

    https://web.archive.org/web/20250704053134/https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/china-tells-eu-it-cannot-afford-russian-loss-ukraine-war-sources-say

    vs

    As the war in Ukraine drags on, Wang’s reported comments suggest that Russia’s war in Ukraine may serve China’s strategic needs as focus is deviated away from Beijing’s mounting preparation to launch its own possible invasion into Taiwan.

    It’s subtle, but the attack on Taiwan is an interpretation. The minister means something else.

    If the economic development continues, Taiwan will want to join China. Thus the focus of the US is interpreted differently by China, more like the focus Iraq or Afghanistan received.

    SCMP:

    During a marathon four-hour debate on a wide range of geopolitical and commercial grievances, Wang was said to have given Kallas – the former Estonian prime minister who only late last year took up her role as the bloc’s de facto foreign affairs chief – several “history lessons and lectures”.

    Some EU officials felt he was giving her a lesson in realpolitik, part of which focused on Beijing’s belief that Washington will soon turn its full attention eastward, two officials said. One interpretation of Wang’s statement in Brussels is that while China did not ask for the war, its prolongation may suit Beijing’s strategic needs, so long as the US remains engaged in Ukraine.

    vs

    that they believed Wang was providing Kallas with a lesson in realpolitik during the four-hour encounter.

    No mentioning of the “history lessons and lectures”, which is a friendlier way of saying that he has referenced past behavior that suggest that the EU is in the wrong.

    There seems to be ignorance about what is going to happen even right at the top of the EU. The Chinese minister is calling bullshit. Yet Kallas must have already known better.

    • LegoBrickOnFire@lemmy.world
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      10 hours ago

      It’s actually interesting! It means that there is a way out: If europe accepts to help keep the US out of Beijings business. I don’t actually know how that could be done. And the EU doesn’t have that kind of coesion.

      • plyth@feddit.org
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        7 hours ago

        The US wants to stay the hegemon but China is advancing technology faster than the US. The conflict is about the multipolar world. Unfortunately the US, and the EU, haven’t explained why they don’t want to be part of a multipolar world.

        • Gsus4@mander.xyzOP
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          7 hours ago

          This sentence makes no sense:

          Unfortunately the US, and the EU, haven’t explained why they don’t want to be part of a multipolar world.

          Is a multipolar world what russia is doing in Ukraine? If you’re going to have a world of trade blocks: NAmerica, SAmerica, EU, Africa, ME, russia?, China, India, Pacific. Europe is perfectly prepared to enter a multilateral or multipolar world order…but not the way russia announced it.

          You can’t simply invade one of the members whenever they try to leave your block. Otherwise you’ll have constant wars in the borders between the blocks. I can tell you already why I would not want to regress to the kind of chaos and constant wars of multipolar unstable alliances of the 17th century, now with nukes and proliferation. Fun! Who wouldn’t want that?

          A multipolar world can work, but you need stronger international institutions and law, not the mockery that russia, the US and israel turned the UN into.

          • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
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            5 hours ago

            a multipolar world means the west (namely the us) can’t unilaterally call all the shots, and other countries can say no.

            • Gsus4@mander.xyzOP
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              5 hours ago

              It also means that russia can’t unilaterally claim all of Ukraine, other countries can say no…it works for everyone. Welcome to the multipolar world too, russia.

              And let me repeat: if the only thing other countries can do to stop anyone’s actions is war and countries just ignore borders, then it will be an extremely unstable system, like in the 17th century. Bipolar is more stable, like in the cold war. Unipolar is relatively stable, but there is no accountability, like in a 1-party system.

              • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
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                4 hours ago

                do to stop anyone’s actions is war

                thats literally what the us has been doing for a century or more now, plus economic coercion. there was never stability in the first place for anyone but the west.

                It also means that russia can’t unilaterally claim all of Ukraine

                welcome to the multipolar world where russia can say no to western institutions and put up a fight. unlike when the west claimed the middle east. or africa. or latin america.

                Bipolar is more stable, like in the cold war, unipolar is more stable.

                citation needed. you are literally calling the constant threat of nuclear war “stability” lol

                you are calling unbridled imperialism stable, man, wtf.

                stability for whom.

          • plyth@feddit.org
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            5 hours ago

            Ukraine seems to be more of a unipolar project than a multipolar project. The important part is the last part of the last sentence.

            David C. Hendrickson, in his article in Foreign Affairs on November 1, 1997, saw the core of the book as the ambitious strategy of NATO to move eastward to Ukraine’s Russian border and vigorously support the newly independent republics of Central Asia and the Caucasus, which is an integral part of what Hendrickson said could be called a “tough love” strategy for the Russians. Hendrickson considers “this great project” to be problematic for two reasons: the “excessive expansion of Western institutions” could well introduce centrifugal forces into it; moreover, Brzezinski’s “test of what legitimate Russian interests are” seems to be so strict that even a democratic Russia would probably “fail”.

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard

            Of course there can also be wars in the multipolar world. But there are enough started by the US that peace seems to be secondary.

            • Gsus4@mander.xyzOP
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              5 hours ago

              Ukraine is as multipolar as it gets: they don’t want to be russia’s bitch, so they asked everyone else for help, some helped.

              • plyth@feddit.org
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                5 hours ago

                Sure. Unfortunately that’s not what counts. Also history is more complicated and doesn’t start in 2014.

                Wang was said to have given Kallas – the former Estonian prime minister who only late last year took up her role as the bloc’s de facto foreign affairs chief – several “history lessons and lectures”.

                • Gsus4@mander.xyzOP
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                  5 hours ago

                  What counts is what is convenient to you, apparently. That is why multipolarity is a royal mess without strict rules, everyone thinks they can do whatever they want. Read some history.

                  • plyth@feddit.org
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                    4 hours ago

                    Unipolary didn’t have strict rules either.

                    Neither is convenient for me because there will be a very inconvenient war. It’s just that people only count when there is an election, and then they only count as a manipulatable resource. Otherwise nobody in power cares about what people want.

                    You are right about your expectations about future wars. It’s time to come up with something to make a better future.