Pakistan police on Friday said a father shot dead his daughter after she refused to delete her account on popular video-sharing app TikTok.
In the Muslim-majority country, women can be subjected to violence by family members for not following strict rules on how to behave in public, including in online spaces.
“The girl’s father had asked her to delete her TikTok account. On refusal, he killed her,” a police spokesperson told AFP.
According to a police report shared with AFP, investigators said the father killed his 16-year-old daughter on Tuesday “for honor.” He was subsequently arrested.
What a fucknut
They call it “honour killings” but it sure is a disgrace…
What a religion. God they’re poisonous.
Doesn’t anyone find the recent uptick in articles about Islamic fundamentalist crimes odd? There are billions of people in the world and these sorts of things happen frequently, yet they rarely receive non-local news coverage. It seems to me like the media is capitalizing on rising Islamophobia (due to the escalating conflicts in the Middle East) by releasing sensational articles about Islamic extremism, which has the effect of drumming up more Islamophobic hate. When crimes like this are committed in the US by Christians the media tends to blame mental illness.
Yeah, I have no idea why CBS is reporting on Pakistan stuff. I don’t need to hear about murders in random countries.
Are you daring to suggest that posts on Lemmy by certain accounts are only to manipulate public opinion. No!!!1
- “Lemmy is too small, why would bots bother?” etc, etc.
It’s insane how twisted in the head you have to be to think that killing your daughter is the honorable thing to do!
Religion is harmful to both individuals and society. Extreme religion is extremely harmful to both individuals and society.I live in a country where I’ve heard a 15-16yo Pakistani kid on a packed bus state he was going to kill his sister because he didn’t like who she was dating - and that he had hit her before because of it. I don’t think most people have any idea how normalised it is in their culture. The country is England.
Note: There is exactly zero religion involved in honor killings; this is a 100% cultural act. Here are some choice quotes from Wikipedia:
Honor killings are primarily associated with the Middle East, the Maghreb and the Indian subcontinent, but they are also rooted in other societies, such as the Philippines, Northern Caucasus, Latin America, East Africa, and historically in Mediterranean Europe.
In French culture, stories about such homicides were romanticized and featured prominently in French literature of the 19th century, and “In literature as in life, unconventional women needed to be severely punished lest their defiant attitudes inspire further acts of rebellion”.[33] In Corsica, there was a strong custom of vendetta, which required Corsicans to murder anyone who wronged their family honor. Between 1821 and 1852 approximately 4,300 vendetta killings were perpetrated in Corsica.[34] France also had a strong culture of dueling meant to uphold honor, and France was called by the National Geographic “the dueling capital of Europe”.[35]
Though it may seem in a modern context that honor killings are tied to certain religious traditions, the data does not support this claim.[95][93] Research in Jordan found that teenagers who strongly endorsed honor killings in fact did not come from more religious households than teens who rejected it.[93] The ideology of honor is a cultural phenomenon that does not appear to be related to religion, be it Middle Eastern or Western countries, and honor killings likely have a long history in human societies which predate many modern religions.[96] In the US, a rural trend known as the “small-town effect” exhibits elevated incidents of argument-related homicides among white males, particularly in honor-oriented states in the South and the West, where everyone “knows your name and knows your shame.” This is similarly observed in rural areas in other parts of the world.
Provocation in English law and related laws on adultery in English law, as well as Article 324 of the French penal code of 1810 were legal concepts which allowed for reduced punishment for the murder committed by a husband against his wife and her lover if the husband had caught them in the act of adultery.[101] On 7 November 1975, Law no. 617/75 Article 17 repealed the 1810 French Penal Code Article 324. The 1810 penal code Article 324 passed by Napoleon was copied by Middle Eastern Arab countries. It inspired Jordan’s Article 340 which permitted the murder of a wife and her lover if caught in the act at the hands of her husband (today the article provides for mitigating circumstances).[102] France’s 1810 Penal Code Article 324 also inspired the 1858 Ottoman Penal Code’s Article 188, both the French Article 324 and Ottoman article 188 were drawn on to create Jordan’s Article 340 which was retained even after a 1944 revision of Jordan’s laws which did not touch public conduct and family law;[103][104][105] article 340 still applies to this day in a modified form.[102] France’s Mandate over Lebanon resulted in its penal code being imposed there in 1943–1944, with the French-inspired Lebanese law for adultery allowing the mere accusation of adultery against women resulting in a maximum punishment of two years in prison while men have to be caught in the act and not merely accused, and are punished with only one year in prison.
So yeah, this is a big problem in many parts of the world and if your reaction to innocent women losing their lives is to make a tired and irrelevant point, then please don’t.
Duelling was rarely to the death, and between consenting individuals whom were both armed.
Seems odd to draw a comparison between that and unarmed children getting murdered by family members.
It’s more about extreme actions done in the name of “protecting honor”.
honourego.
Yeah I guess dueling is totally fine then?
If I need to explain to you that two completely unrelated acts can be judged differently you might want to head back to pre-school, which is where most humans generally learn these sort of lessons.
I mean I’m not defending honor killings because why would any sane person but you sound pretty apologetic towards yet another archaic patriarchal tradition just because it happens to have been part of your culture
Funny then that when they move to another culture, and take it with them, it is always muslims.
I’m willing to bet this is less about religion and more about an awful piece of shit human. There’s many cases of people killing their kids in the US that have nothing to do with religion. Just assholes that shouldn’t exist.
I do agree that religion sucks and encourages awful people, but to murder your kid you have to be a deranged human to begin with.
many cases of people killing their kids in the US
We can take a look at honour killings ?
In 1989 in St. Louis, Missouri, sixteen-year-old Palestina (Tina) Isa was murdered by her Palestinian father, Zein Isa
Amina and Sarah Said were the children of an Egyptian immigrant father Yaser Abdel Said
Sandeela Kanwal was a Pakistani woman living in the Atlanta metropolitan area in Clayton County, Georgia, who was murdered by her father Chaudhry Rashid[1] in an honor killing, on July 6, 2008
In February 2009, Muzzammil Hassan (Pakistani American) was arrested and charged with murdering his estranged wife Aasiya Zubair with a knife
Faleh Hassan Almaleki, an Iraqi immigrant, used his vehicle to strike and kill his daughter Noor Almaleki (aged 20) in a Phoenix valley parking lot in October 2009
Jordanian-American Ali Mahmood Awad Irsan was sentenced to death in a Texas court on August 14, 2018, for the murders of Gelareh Bagherzadeh and Coty Beavers in Greater Houston
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_States
Something in common with them all, I don’t know what 🤔
If you label “when people from the middle east kill family members for disobeying the family” as honor killings, then yes it’s going to be a list of primarily Muslim people.
If you replace “from the middle east” with “from Italian-American culture” you get a list of mafioso.
If you replace it with “from the Italian peninsula c.0 AD” then you get a list of Roman patriarchs who had the literal power of life or death legally over their offspring and numbered rather than named their useless daughters.
Islam did not make these people kill their families. It did however make an American decide to call it an “honor killing”.
Yes, ‘honor killing’ happens at different rates in different cultures, and it being an important factor in Middle Eastern culture could explain a higher rates in these cultures. But I am wondering, do we kill our daughters and wifes less here in the West? Or do we just give up different motives than honor? The US certainly has a very high femicide rate, higher than most Middle Eastern countries. (according to this website. Haven’t found infanticide rates yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Doesn’t split it by gender. Obviously there are much worse places (looking at you, Caribbean), but the U.S. needs to look in the mirror.
You can listen to podcasts of Muslim “elders” and they openly laugh and boast about how women “should not even be heard” when those elders live in non-Eastern countries. Yes, England, I’m looking at you.
Ok, you specifically listed a small fraction of children murdered by their parents. Of course religion has issues and encourages and enables awful abuses. But if you are a parent who is capable of murdering your child, you are fucked in the head with or without religion. That’s all I’m saying.
You know exactly what you racist cunt. You just don’t want to say it because it would defeat the dogwhistling
Islam is a religion.
Typical deflection. “We’re not racist we just hate islam”, said every nazi for 20 years
One of the core societal demands of the prophet Mohamed, blessings and peace be upon him, was to end the practice of burying daughters alive. At the time a daughter was considered a disgrace, so some pre-islamic Arabs murdered their daughters this way.
The Quran is also very explicit about the rights of women and the correct behavior towards them, something that is often ignored in societies that claim to be muslim, but evidently did not read much.
“OG Islam” is fundamentally opposed to femicide. Femicides aren’t a religious but a cultural issue and prevalent outside of religious groups too.
Seems to me that Islam is discriminating strongly against women, and that could absolutely be a factor to prevent this sick culture from being abandoned.
I know there are Muslims who are good people, but I don’t think the religion is helping.
I knew many Muslims when I lived in Copenhagen, from many different countries, and common for the men were that they were way more discriminating against women than is normally acceptable among cultural Danes. They also commonly claimed that the women preferred it that way! For instance regarding very stereotypical strong gender roles.
I also don’t believe the honor thing is without heavy influence from religion, and religion is helping preserve these medieval standards in modern times.I know there are Muslims that are more modern and more moral, and just like most Christians have abandoned ancient doctrines that are clearly bad.
It just seems to me that Islam has not progressed away from such practices as much as Christianity generally has.
For instance by far the most Muslims still believe apostasy is a sin that should be punished. In a modern society that is unacceptable.“Don’t kill women” making “OG Islam” somehow “better” is a pretty low fucking bar.
Nearly all religion is a regressive cancer on society used as a scapegoat to do terrible things.
That’s ignoring their point, though. They are simply pointing out that the father in this article is not following the Quran, they’re following some other twisted ideology that uses the Quran as an excuse, despite the source material explicitly telling them not to do this type of behavior.
As a side note, I’m not religious, and I do believe that organized religion has been the cause of horrible atrocities. I just think your response isn’t really addressing what the other person was debating, but maybe I’m wrong.
they’re following some other twisted ideology that uses the Quran as an excuse,
Fun fact: The Quran doesn’t feature into these, not even as an excuse. My reply to the parent comment has more details, but people who do these vile acts take “honor violations warrant death” to be an axiom on its own, just as a birthday warrants a celebration and a sick family member warrants a visit. I mean, there’s a reason the words “Islam” and “religion” feature exactly 0 times in the article.
To be fair, the article does start of with referring to Pakistan as “Muslim-majority country”. This is probably where the association came from.
What? That’s not what a scapegoat is, idiot
Muhammad wanting to save all the young girls? For himself?
It’s true, rights for women in the Islamic world and their treatment is far better than in the western world!
The Quran is also very explicit about the rights of women and the correct behavior towards them, something that is often ignored in societies that claim to be muslim, but evidently did not read much.
Exactly!
I really wish the west would catch up to the Islamic world with how it treats its women. I especially like how they are so progressive when it comes to gays and lesbians, inshallah !
/s
I think it’s best you include “/s” in this one!
updated thanks!
Yawn. Now talk about Sharia courts and Sharia law, where a woman can be sentenced to death for
being rapedcheating,female genital mutilation is allowedand generally, womencan be sentenced to deathgiven appropriate sentences and outside Muslim mendeny Sharia law to outsiderskeep the sacred secrets of Islam between themselves.fundamentally opposed to femicide
That’s not what the official guidebook says though. You can lie or be in denial, but we can read.
I mean… no? Like, like it or hate it the Quran is pretty clear about this. If you disagree, then give me a verse number.
deleted by creator
lol. Even scholars agree that its full of misogynistic bullshit that should be read in a symbolic way. Nice try though but we’ve had this debate for decades.
Then give them the verse number like they asked.
Good god, they haven’t read their own book?
Nope, you haven’t. That’s why they are asking you for a verse that says what you claim it says.
Media needs to give a new term to the concept of Pakistani “honor”. Governments are afraid to touch it (esp. the UK govt.) with regard to Pakistanis in particular and Islam. Probably for fear of being victims of ‘honor’ killings themselves given recent history.
Exactly, Australia did this. We used to call hidden punches from the side “king hits”, and now they are called “coward punches”, which is far more appropriate. In the same way that Australian men who do it are absolute cowards, these family members who kill their daughters are absolute filth of humanity.
I don’t know the appropriate term, but it has to be changed.
Yep, unfortunately, media have the right to be afraid following the Charlie Hebdo nonsense, here are some examples of criticisng Islam:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie - Now Sir. a man who wrote some books Islamists didn’t like. So they threatened to kill him. A fatwa. Multi-million pound bounty and a failed assassination attempt. All because of a book. All through the 80s he was in hiding, covered by the police, paid for by the tax payer. When he emerged from hiding like in the 90s or so, everything had died down and was cool, yes? Nope, he got attacked by a guy with a knife and he lost an eye in 2022 in NY. Read this, it states “a man has been charged”, it (cowardly?) failed to mention that the 24 yo man was a Muslim with ties to Lebanon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabbing_of_Salman_Rushdie
- Charlie Hebdo - a French magazine was raided and people there were shot by two young Muslim men who killed 12 and injured 11. “It published cartoons of the Islamic prophet Muhammad in 2012, forcing France to temporarily close embassies and schools in more than 20 countries amid fears of reprisals.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting. More Muslim-led violence continued after the Charlie Hebdo raid where jews were targeted and killed. Most of the muslims involved were unfortunately killed (so they think they go to a heaven, full of virgins or something… is that meant to be appealing to young men? - Islam knows how to market itself to an audience of rapist men)
- 2020, A French teacher beheaded for showing his students the Charlie Hebdo cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed. Yes, beheaded and disemboweled. Not by the French peasants for a revolution, but by a former 18yo Muslim student who was shown such pictures in a lesson on free speech. https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20211015-france-honours-quiet-hero-teacher-killed-for-showing-prophet-mohammed-cartoon - It was seen as “an attack on the core values drilled by teachers into generations of schoolchildren, including the separation of church and state and the right to blaspheme.”
My proposal is “legal cause to slit the dad’s throat in self-defense”.
Well in this case it would have been a 16 year old girl against an adult man with a gun.
Not the best chances for self defense.
Some chance is better than none. If a dude was pointing a gun at me, fully intending to blow my head off, I’d fight him with my bare fists if I had to.
Oh, and adrenaline is a powerful thing. Eye and throat are excellent targets in a fight to the death, and any weapon you can get your hands on is allowed.
A family with a child murderer as its head is obviously more honourable than the alternative. Morons.
Insanity. Pure, unmitigated insanity.
I’m not sure he had any sanity in the first place to go insane, these kinds of ‘creatures’ only look human, if he can murder his daughter then he can murder anyone, hes a danger to everyone around him, should be locked up for life 😠
Dehumanizing people is the first step in treating them like animals, and then extermination them - genocide. Don’t go down that path. It always ends the same way.
Can we all agree that every religion is cancer
Extremism is cancer
No all religion is cancer
Actually humanity is cancer. Let’s all self destruct and let animals lives peacefully
Most of them certainly can be but Buddhism seems to be pretty practical and reasonable.
Except when it comes to dealing with Rohingyas in Myanmar
I think it’s just less talked about because it seems to be going on so far from most English speaking places.
I’m not super familiar on any details, but of course there is a wiki for Buddism and Violence and there is plenty of current day stuff going on.
People are always going to eventually act their worst when enough refuse to back down on their personal beliefs, no matter their religion, or lack thereof for that matter. It’s sad seeing all the discrimination in the comments.
Must have been one of those fanatic atheists again, right? They are evil and probably worship Satan. /s
Even he is less annoying than some stupid internet atheist
The atheist urss wad responsible of killing million
I have no doubt the atheists of USSR were inspired by the writings of Richard Dawkins, his seminal book “The Selfish Gene” was likely what inspired the killings
Imb4 a bunch of pigs starts whining about religions and suddenly care a lot about women rights when it comes to shitting on brown people.
Anything but to confront your own misoginy innit?
Sure, this event on the other side of the world is tragic or whatever, but isn’t the real story here that my political opponents are bad people?
Given that those political opponents once uttered shit like “palestinians deserved it because they threat women badly”, yes, yes they are.
But hey i’m sure you will remembet that girl when the US will bomb pakistan
Yeah, right. Like I’m going to believe anything the pigs say. ACAB.
