Good insights, and not just software developers, really. We don’t like ads, sensationalism, or anything reeking of bullshit. If we have to talk to someone to find out the price, the product may as well not exist.
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Yeah pretty much, i mean you cant just assume because someone is a developer that they have a brain but this sums up my relationship with all the sales people ive met in my career
Me: Hey i need information about your product
Sales: Hey id love to swing by and show you our product line. How many can we put you foen for? Can we schedule a call?
Me: finds a different vendor
Has anyone been to any kind of convention for nerdy things. Nerds are so captured by the marketing and products being sold that they let it take over their personality and they can’t stop buying junk.
Yeah, this is self-aggrandizement from a group of people who consistently believe they’re smarter than everybody else, when in reality they just lack self-awareness. Nerds will smugly post in this thread using their overpriced mechanical keyboard as a wall of Funko pops and Star Wars slop looms behind them. I worked in marketing for a long time and I know damn well I’m not immune to it.
Pretty much, yeah.
The article points out how a bunch of specific techniques don’t work on programmers. That’s because they’re aimed at project managers, not programmers. And yeah, they work. Hardly any programmers willingly chose Jira for their ticketing system, but project managers love that shit, and it’s everywhere.
All it really means is that it takes a different set of marketing techniques to reach programmers. They generally don’t bother, because programmers don’t typically control the budget directly.
You just described Geeks. Geek and Nerd group labels can sometimes apply to the same people, but they are not synonymous, and a person can be one without the other.
Geeks are enthusiasts who collect and engage with specific topics, often focusing on trends and memorabilia, while nerds are more academically inclined, concentrating on mastering knowledge and skills in their areas of interest. Both terms can overlap, but they emphasize different aspects of passion and expertise.
https://laist.com/shows/take-two/whats-the-difference-between-a-geek-and-a-nerd
I knew somebody would try to play that card. People who insist on that distinction are the least self-aware of all.
You’re resorting to personal attacks without knowing who I am, what I do, what I do or don’t have on the wall behind me. You apply a blanket label on all people who you class a certain way, and when I disagree with your label and its implications, and recommend nuance, you class me further.
It sounds like you think very highly of yourself, or lowly of everyone else, or both.
What makes your opinions here worthwhile?
You are not immune to marketing (or to propaganda in general). The more you become at ease with that fact, the better equipped you will be to deal with the deluge of shit that is coming for all of us.
What makes your opinions here worthwhile?
As I said in another reply, I worked in marketing for a long time, so I have first-hand experience that most others here don’t. Many have a rather narrow definition of what they’re willing to label “advertising” and don’t realize how much is actually happening all around them. I’m applying a blanket label because the blanket is covering all of us, even those who fervently deny it and insist that it’s simply warm and cozy wherever they are.
I disagree, I don’t fall into the category you stated. My walls are lined with 80s memorabilia and 3d printed things I have created. I reject anything advertised to me and will only purchase tech that I have sought out that meets my needs.
If this irony, good job because I think most people will fall for it.
I don’t think it is. I know a few people like this, and im heading in that direction myself. The only kinds of “ads” that work on me are when a number of equally nerdy people I know find a new thing, and they’ve demonstrated that it has helped them with something or they are genuinely enjoying using it. Like 3D printing. Its semi-pointless most of the time but it is a genuinely fun hobby, which when combined with 3D modeling and post-processing skills becomes an actual craft. I didn’t get into it until a good number of people around me did.
80s memorabilia and 3D printers are not exempt form marketing. They are products just like anything else.
I don’t have a single funko pop or Star Wars toy or whatever. I have a Keychron keyboard that cost me $70, while it is more costly than the average membrane I like mechanical ones. I never buy new if I can (usually this is a time constraint, I.e I broke my phone and I need to replace it quick one because my job relies it). I Adblock everywhere I possibly can to not see the ads but I genuinely believe I’m immune to advertising.
I genuinely believe I’m immune to advertising.
You are not - you just don’t see it as such. Even if you didn’t use the internet at all (which we can see is not the case) you would still fall victim to its network effects.
Then they ain’t nerds, sorry.
Yeah, I think scottsman are the ones that are actually immune to marketing.
What say you to this example of a Scotsman that is infected with marketing?
Yeah but I don’t think that’s marketing, if you’re going to a con for something, you’re likely very passionate about it and passionate people love to scoop up everything they can that relates to their beloved hobby or franchise.
Also, nerds tend to have a good amount of disposable income on that stuff
Right? I’ve seen the walls of Funko Pops… nerds definitely are not immune to marketing.
do people actually buy those? I honestly thought they were some kind of money laundering thing. I’ve never once saw one sell.
Is that marketing or is it just finding stuff they want to own?
It’s marketing making them think they want to own that stuff.
How do you think you “found” it? A whole supply chain of people, from branding to packaging to advertising, made it so that you can “find” things on websites that are themselves outright advertisements or at least funded by them.
It’s marketing.
Marketing. It is very effective.
Good insights, and not just software developers, really. We don’t like ads, sensationalism, or anything reeking of bullshit
Its a big list of major assumptions by someone who never bothered to verify if they’re even true. He’s mad he had to work with a heavily marketed product that his boss liked, and wrote this about it. Check out this quote from the article;
And the really fun part is that “astroturfing” a thread about your product on Hacker News or Reddit is just about impossible. If you go to the places where developers hang out and try to promote your product, you will be shot down faster than Mark Zuckerberg at a privacy conference.
Dude. Reddit is practically more bot than person at this point, and its impossible to know by how much, because of how good they are at fooling everyone. https://www.clrn.org/how-much-of-reddit-is-bots/
You are not immune to propaganda
Maybe some are. You may have fallen for some propaganda here.
No, they aren’t. Any one who thinks they are is more susceptible.
Humans are social creatures, propaganda is a social contagion.
The only people who could be would be those with no ties to anyone. Kind of a nonstarter for the whole “cooperative survival strategy” that humans for going on.
Nearly everyone thinks that they are immune, but we’re not, we just recognize some that probably wasn’t targeted at us. As far as I am concerned, the only way to not be influenced by propaganda would be to completely avoid it and be some sort of hermit.
I bet there are hermit influencers who post videos where they hold the latest chamberpot up to the camera and extol its virtues. Then they post a shelfie that shows their latest book haul about transcendental meditation and bushcrafting.
Do they just record the video to a usb drive, seal it in a bottle, and throw it in the ocean or something? Wouldn’t posting it online revoke their hermit status?
Yeah, the thing about propaganda is that it works, and if it doesn’t work, then the propagandists will come up with something else that does work. The thing is that they’re constantly thinking about how to exploit you, while you’re thinking about other stuff.
So for example, I hate feeling like I receive a hard sell. So, if I am at a store and somebody tries to sell me something, I will not buy it, and in fact, I’ll probably assume the product is so shoddy that it can’t be sold without pressure. Same goes for popup ads online.
But if a marketer knows this about me, then they can definitely manipulate me. They just have to do it in a way that I don’t realize is marketing. And there are all sorts of campaigns like that.
True, and having the hubris to think otherwise makes you even less immune.
Marketing doesn’t target nerds. It targets their boss who is likely to enforce usage of the tool.
This headline could be amended to be more accurate as “experts in a given field not swayed by marketing that does not respect their expertise”. I’m sure there are bullshit claims on fertilizers that landscapers laugh at. I’m sure automotive engineers aren’t impressed by most features in a new car brochure. Trying to market a software solution to software engineers with bullshit claims it’s just a bad marketing strategy.
If you want to sell software with bullshit claims, market it to the executives!
Yeah, no prices. I move on. Same with job ads, no salary no application. If I get an intrusive ad, I’m not buying that product, I’ll deliberately seek out another brand in fact.
Is that a weird attitude to have? I thought it just made sense. We shouldn’t be rewarding this BS.
Marketing absolutely works on Nerds, what a ridiculous statement. Just because certain types marketing will push us away doesn’t mean all marketing is pointless. Be honest, let me know what your product does, give me a proper datasheet and a price, and I’ll explore it. Try to shove some hyperbolic BS down by throat while hiding the things I actually care about and I’ll never buy from your company.
I think there’s a substantial difference between “supplying information about a product without shoving it in people’s face”, and what most people associate with “marketing”.
If a company putting up neutral, verifiable information about their product on their own webpage where I can find it by searching for something I’m looking for after reflexively scrolling past the ads counts as marketing, then yes, I “fall for marketing” all the time. However, what I typically associate with “marketing” involves me somehow being fed information about a product without seeking it out. Usually when that happens, I’ll actively look somewhere else.
As a System Admin, I totally feel this. I fucking hate vendors and their bullshit marketing. In generally during the times that I have to deal, I will usually hear them out. But if the rep is annoying I will start the Q&A with questions that are designed to destroy their presentations or expose how little they know about their products. Good sales reps know how to react but bad ones just dig it in deeper and it becomes a show.
I’d love some example questions for this.
I’ll just add that a white paper with technical information about how the product works is actually valuable. A white paper that reads like an ad in the form of an infographic is a waste of time.
The way I’ve always looked at it, a good product/service can typically stand on it’s reputation. If a company needs to spend millions on advertising to move their stuff, they’re probably not all that good or are overpriced. Someone is paying for all that advertising and it always ends up being the consumer.
You can’t really have a “reputation” in this day and age without marketing. The fact that things like Stardew valley exist really only prove the point.
I don’t know about that. Tiktok, Lamborghini, Tesla, Krispy Kreme, The Dollar Shave Club, Tupperware, Rolls Royce, Costco, Trader Joe’s, Go Pro etc all do little to no traditional advertising and do just fine.
Not that there’s anything wrong with some advertising to get the word out, but when you’re getting spammed with ads from every angle, that company starts feeling a little scummy to me.
The Dollar Shave Club, go pro
I specifically know who these guys are because of their massive youtube advertising campaigns.
Krispy Kreme, tesla
Please. Walk outside. Or watch cable for a bit. Just because you don’t personally see them doesn’t mean they don’t also have budgets for advertising as well. Tesla in particular straight up gave up on the strategy of word of mouth once their product stopped being known as quality, or at least, higher tech than anybody else.
https://teslanorth.com/2024/03/29/tesla-advertising-spend-6-5-million-2023/
https://ingenuitydisplay.com/what-is-krispy-kreme-s-advertising-budget.html
trader joes, costco
Exceptions to the rule, like Stardew valley, which prove the rule. They are famous as not having a marketing budget because not having a marketing budget is weird and unheard of.
While some now invest in some level of traditional advertising, it’s not what made them big. As you said with Tesla, they only started advertising when people started realizing they were crap, and even then compared to other vehicle manufacturers they spend little. Go Pro used influencers and content marketing by their customers, the Dollar Shave Club made it to fame through viral videos.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/viral-branding-10-brands-got-big-without-advertising-kent-lewis/
Yeah. The companies you mentioned are rare novelties because they chose to advertise very little. That means the thing that is normal is when a company advertises. Ergo, having a good reputation usually requires marketing.
Ya I get what you mean, it doesn’t always work out for everyone without getting the word out traditionally, but it does happen.
Personally I think advertising only goes so far before a company just starts looking desperate by saturating the landscape with ads. Maybe that’s just me tho lol
Nobody is immune to all bias all of the time, you just have to know what the right bias is to push in your marketing. It’s what makes advertising propaganda so insidious, it’s like the flu everyone is susceptible.
But I’m a nerd and marketing works on me…
Time to hand in your nerd badge at the front desk 😄
At work sure, at home my ever growing pile of e-waste disagrees.
Developers rarely control the tools budget; their managers do.
So this whole article is a moot point
Developers detest marketing. If you want to sell them a tool, make it easy for them to find the information they need and leave them alone to try out your tool.
So marketing does work, just not “traditional” or “mainstream” marketing. We’ve had shareware since the beginning times, which was the ultimate try before you buy. Now we have the subscription model (fbow).
Yeah I’d like to think I’m better than marketing, but really, it just takes the right marketing, and I’m putty in their hands.
Fair point. The title should be something more like “Normie Marketing Doesn’t Work in Nerds”.
A website with pricing, extensive documentation, and a download button effectively IS marketing.
The fundamental difference to me, which makes me not see “a website with extensive docs and a download button” as marketing, is whether you need to seek it out or not.
If I need to seek it out myself, it’s not marketing, it’s simply “providing solid information” and “making your product accessible”, which is a whole different ballgame from “shoving your shit into peoples face in the hope that they’ll give you money”.
