- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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Hopefully we can buy them in Canada soon.
Yeah, I don’t understand the huge tariff on Chinese EVs. They’ve counter tariffed our canola, hurting the farmers. And we don’t produce EVs, at least not the category they make.
The real question is how.
Tesla and BYD are opposed :
Teslas are efficient, fun and safe to drive, with great yet restrictive software and mediocre build quality
BYD are cheap, well built and rather open software… Thats absolutely garbage, and the cars are terrible to drive and inefficient . they feel rushed and underdeveloped basically.
Wait… People are still buying Teslas?
Well, Musk’s companies sure seem to be buying quite a few, so I’m sure that’s helping him too.
That’s only going to make the inevitable crash of tesla take down the rest of his companies as well.
He’s said as much too.
At least he understands lol
My thought as well. I’d not take a Tesla if it was free.
Eat shit, musk
This is the comment I was looking for.
Tesla is on the way down in every major market China/USA/EU, So it won’t be long before Tesla isn’t number 2 either. VW is clearly the leader in EU, but they are not so strong in either USA or China. So maybe Hyundai or Toyota will be the next brand to surpass Tesla?
IMO VW group has the best affordable EV’s currently, I just bought a VW ID.4 last month, but if I had the money, I would have bought a BMW or Mercedes. But the ID.4 is still a very nice car and I’m quite happy with it. 😎
In a few years Tesla will probably be behind BYD, Geely, Xpeng, Toyota, Hyundai and VW group.
On the technology they are already way behind the Chinese brands on charging, and VW, BMW and Mercedes on quality. Probably also behind Hyundai.
Toyota is only getting started on BEV, so I’m not really counting them yet. But I am confident they will compete in the top soon.I think Toyota is still betting on hydrogen? I hope hydrogen can take off in the mass market, soon. It has the potential to be a better energy store than batteries.
Toyota came out with their first decent fully battery electric this year, and AFAIK they have more models on the way for next year.
Problem with Hydrogen is that it has been about the potential for more than 2 decades now. And my guess is that it is even more behind batteries now than it was 20 years ago.
But there are use cases for hydrogen fuel cells, because of the lower weight, and my guess is the bigger energy waste with Hydrogen will be offset in the future by frequent temporary energy surpluses from renewables that can be used to make cheap hydrogen. But there are infrastructure problems, because it requires investments to go from the relatively easy charging stations for batteries, to transport and storage of hydrogen to enable “tanking up” a hydrogen based car. Also with electricity you can just charge a BEV at home.
So I still have my doubts about hydrogen, but we will see.Toyota have some BEVs currently available, at least the Toyota bZ4x (with Subaru equivalent) and Lexus has the UX 300e and RZ. But certainly a bit late to the BEV party. There’s supposed to be some new EV models coming this year.
Toyota’s Bold Bet: Why It’s Doubling Down on Hydrogen as Rivals Go All-Electric
Toyota’s multi-pathway approach keeps hydrogen fuel cells at the heart of its long-term plan, betting the technology will replace diesel and complement EVs in the next decade.
Hydrogen is still their focus. EV tech has it’s limitations and hydrogen can or a combination of hydrogen and EV tech could be a stronger strategy, long term.
In the US at least, I really don’t see hydrogen ever taking off. Even in California, there’s so few stations that you can’t really travel from the top of the state to the bottom without going out of your way. The hydrogen fuel stations that are in place are even more expensive than they were a few years ago, if they’re still functioning at all. We’re talking like $180 USD for the equivalent of a tank of gas, at stations that aren’t as convenient as a gas station or an outlet at home. It’s even the subject of a lawsuit, which may or may not be successful.
It seems like hydrogen has already lost the race for the rest of the world, with BEV adoption growing substantially in Europe and China. Personally I wouldn’t want my market to rely on solely Japan and a US headed by someone blatantly antagonistic to alternative fuels.
My impression is that much of the world is more positive on hydrogen than the USA. Toyota seems to be slow-walking EVs in anticipation of hydrogen breakthroughs. Mist of what you say about fuel stations could have been said about charging infrastructure not that long ago.
I’m definitely open to being wrong about the world’s impression of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, but I’m not sure it’s borne out in the data. Europe doesn’t seem to be adapting it anywhere near the rate at which they’ve adopted BEVs (I couldn’t find a 2025 report in my cursory search, but would love to see one if anyone else finds it), nor does China, which is all in on BEVs. In fact, it seems like California may have more hydrogen fuel cell vehicles alone than all of Europe combined. That’s two of the major markets accounted for, but it might be possible to convince the US to adopt hydrogen when they decide they no longer want to be left in the past.
I’m not sure the infrastructure build out for hydrogen is directly comparable to the charging infrastructure for BEVs. At least some segment of the population has access to charging infrastructure just by virtue of having access to an outlet at their homes, which allows for trickle charging, as well as the option to install a dedicated charger at home that allows for much cheaper charging that’s also fast enough to charge from 0-100 overnight, so no need to stop at a fuel station at all. This meant that there were people who were willing to adopt the technology through the growing pains. With hydrogen, you run into a bit of a chicken and the egg problem where companies aren’t encouraged to expand infrastructure without adoption rates being high enough and consumers aren’t itching to purchase a vehicle where fuel is more expensive and less convenient to access. The refuel card incentives were supposed to get consumers over that hump, but it doesn’t seem like it was anywhere near enough. I think the conditions were ripe for an emergent technology to eventually replace ICE vehicles, but hydrogen fueled vehicles were on the back foot to begin with.
The fact that Hydrogen, the most readily available element in the Universe, is not our primary fuel source demonstrates how ignorant the majority of people on the planet are. If everyone knew, they would look at any other energy source as a complete waste of resources and demand better.
Hydrogen is a major fuel source, just not in the form that’s necessary to power hydrogen fuel cell cars. Regular gas vehicles are powered by hydrogen, since they’re a component of gasoline. Any energy generated by liquified natural gas (though I hate the term) is using hydrogen as a fuel source. It’s not exactly easy to create, liquify, store, and transport pure elemental hydrogen for use in hydrogen fuel cell cars, let alone the cost to develop all the infrastructure to do so. I don’t think it’s a collective action problem, and if we were going to rally around a singular transportation issue, I think it’d be far more valuable to demand robust public transit options.
Electrolysis can separate Hydrogen from Oxygen in water. It is also incredibly eco friendly, and incredibly easy to scale up. Hydrogen as a fuel also produces water vapor as a byproduct. Not to mention Hydrogen Fusion technology for Nuclear energy production will be the way if we get our collective heads on right.
Feel free to tell me how you plan to power your theoretical public transport grid without mentioning Solar and wind farms which are are incredibly destructive to the environment to build, maintain, and operate.
How are we sustainably converting elemental hydrogen into a state where it’s readily storable and transportable for use in vehicles? I’m not pushing against it as a viable energy source generally speaking, but it really doesn’t need to be in a car, where it’s used to power an electric motor in the exact same way as a battery is, except the battery can recapture energy through regenerative breaking. I was pushing back against the implication that humanity is stupid for not using hydrogen in general, because we use a lot of it.
For the record, your all-powerful and flawless elemental hydrogen can power the grid just as readily as it could power a car. It’d be great if it were a larger share of our energy generation, for the record.
The fact that Hydrogen, the most readily available element in the Universe, is not our primary fuel source demonstrates how ignorant the majority of people on the planet are. If everyone knew, they would look at any other energy source as a complete waste of resources and demand better.
Electrolysis can separate Hydrogen from Oxygen in water. It is also incredibly eco friendly, and incredibly easy to scale up. Hydrogen as a fuel also produces water vapor as a byproduct. Not to mention Hydrogen Fusion technology for Nuclear energy production will be the way if we get our collective heads on right.
Feel free to tell me how you plan to power your theoretical public transport grid without mentioning Solar and wind farms which are are incredibly destructive to the environment to build, maintain, and operate.
For the record, I wasn’t speaking about personal vehicles. Nor did I make one mention of them. But since you wish to ignore my point and change the topic: If I had it my way, no one would own a personal vehicle. EV or otherwise.
