A video, discovered on the cellphone of a paramedic who was found along with 14 other aid workers in a mass grave in Gaza in late March, shows that the ambulances and fire truck that they were traveling in were clearly marked and had their emergency signal lights on when Israeli troops hit them with a barrage of gunfire.
Israel shooting medics, throwing them in a mass grave and then lying about it? Better not talk about it, or we might be labelled as antisemites and/or terrorist supporters.
somehow this went from defending themselves against terrorist’s, to them becoming terrorists as well
The state of Israel was founded by genocidal terrorists
Religion as a concept and religious states are nothing short of fascism. It doesn’t matter if the upmost entity is fictional, and the power is actually wielded by kings or popes and such, or if it’s Hitler, at the end it’s all the same: A way to suppress and mass murder anyone and anything that doesn’t please the Führer(s).
Zionism is a secular/atheist project. It was strongly opposed by religious Jews at the beginning and still is by many. They had to work very strongly to create some religiously painted zionism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
You are blaming the side of ethnic Jewish people that mostly opposed Zionism for it. And especially blaming it on the religion is strange, as their motivation for opposing Zionism is religious.
I have the feeling that many people are just projecting their experiences and concepts of their brand of extremist Christians (Evangelical, hardcore Catholics…) onto Jews and Muslims.
Yes, it’s totally the christians double-death-sentencing 16 year olds for being homosexual and not believing in god, not the UAE government.
Religion as a concept should not exist. Genocides, mass enslaving and gassing are almost all results of religion and religion-like structures. It’s no wonder that countries built, formed and led by religions clash with other countries, as almost every religions literal only purpose is to 1) provide comfort for people in need and 2) establish and burn that batshit crazy believe in every humans mind, bind them to the leaders indefinitely and take over literally every speck of the earth, because only that religion is correct, and should rule. You know what other moves had that exact same signature, motives and effects? Correct, the NSDAP under Hitler. Which is why it’s literally seen as a “replacement-religion” - it combines everyone under one small group of leaders, with bullshit takes and erases everything else. The only difference being that religion (again, as a concept, not the people) is much more subtle, at least in modern times. But as we see, everywhere, especially in countries with religion (religious leaders themselves) as the defacto government, it still very much exists.
As long as religion has any power, and can therefore fulfill purpose 2, it’s literal fascism. We need to destroy each and every government and large religious organizations, remove any power from lobbies and churches, and provide all children with neutral information about everything, including religion. So they can themselves choose to believe in bullshit, so it may help them, but without granting anyone arbitrary power by those beliefs.
So you still claim that the crimes of secular/atheist organizations are to be blamed on religion?
Because the criticism you attribute to religiously painted states or organizations can be equally put to secular/atheist organizations.
French Colonialism was secular. The Nazis were largely Atheists. Stalin and Mao were notorious for slaughtering religious people and destroying religious organizations. B.P., BASF, DuPont and other large polluting companies… All secular. Zuckerberg, Musk, Thiel, all Atheists. You would have to equally demand the destruction of all Atheism by your logic, which then ends up in a fallacy.
Or you would have come to terms with the fact that presence or absence of outwardly presented religion does not have any indication as to what is in peoples hearts of good and evil.
If you believe in the destruction of Religion i recommend you to look at the work of Stalin. That is what systematic destruction of Religion looks like in practice.
Militant atheists will never cease to amaze me with the nonsense they come up with (and how they say “religion” but can only think of Christianity as an example).
What are you talking about? This is a comment in relation to an event that doesn’t have Christianity tied to it as a primary religion, and throughout world history it has been well established that religion in general will be used by those in power to accomplish their goals. sometimes those people are willing to kill in the name of said goals or beliefs.
Oh yeah fair enough, recently they use Judaism too.
and throughout world history it has been well established that religion in general will be used by those in power to accomplish their goals. sometimes those people are willing to kill in the name of said goals or beliefs.
Yeah but “Religion as a concept and religious states are nothing short of fascism”? “A way to suppress and mass murder anyone and anything that doesn’t please the Führer”? Setting aside the ridiculousness of this take in and of itself, it’s incredibly reductive. What’s the difference between the Abbasid Caliphate, the Holy Roman Empire and the French Empire? Well it doesn’t matter because they’re all nothing short of literally fascist!
ah sure, fair point. i kind of glossed over that lol. yeah… i wouldn’t necessarily agree with that assessment if its meant to be a genuine statement (maybe it’s an exaggeration born out of frustration?) but i can empathize with how the commenter arrived to that conclusion. i can follow the logic as an atheist myself who happens to be somewhat of an antitheist. however, i think it’s ignorant of anyone to say religion cannot be a source of good for a community or individual. religion is complicated, it isn’t a homogenous group of thinkers. you cannot have all concepts of it share one universal tenant, i.e. fascism, because there are hundreds of thousands of religions and many do not know about each other or the cultures around them. how could they all be fascist?
I don’t like cringy atheist but he’s right. Having a state religion makes you an ethnostate who threat people differently according to what one believe in.
You’re thinking of a theocracy.
But the UK has a state religion, the Church of England, but they’re neither a theocracy nor an ethnostate.
Today they aren’t, but when they first broke from Rome/The Pope, they certainly were genocidal. The English purge of Catholicism was brutal, and then the power went back and forth, both in England and France, with a brutal murderous crackdown with each regime change, all based on Protestants vs Catholics.
Eventually they wore themselves out, and evolved to the place we are now, but today’s “peaceful” state religion is built on a foundation of murder, torture, and genocide.
All true, but still doesn’t make them a theocracy or ethnostate (except for the bits where the king claimed to be appointed by God himself).
Israel is an ethnostate because they are deliberately ethnically homogenous and view Arabs as inferior on an institutional scale, not because of their state religion. A state with a religious ruling class is called a theocracy.
I see what you’re saying because religion has societal and cultural impacts that reinforce specific behaviours, but not all states that have a state religion are actually theocracies in the traditional sense.
That’s not what an ethnostate is, but either way that’s not the point. Treating people differently according to what they believe in isn’t “nothing short of fascism” and “a way to suppress and mass murder anyone and anything that doesn’t please the Führer(s)”. Having legal discrimination doesn’t make a state fascist, because that’s literally not what fascism is. It’s not even a useful way to analyze the behavior of states today or historically.
You: appartheid is cool actually.
It is litterally what fascism is. A strongman leader protecting the in group.
https://academic.oup.com/book/742/chapter-abstract/135399669
You: appartheid is cool actually
There are bad things other than fascism.
A strongman leader protecting the in group.
The fuck? No that’s not what fascism is. I mean even if it was that’s not what most religion-based states now or throughout history are, but even if it was that’s literally not what fascism is. The central tenet of fascism is worship of the state and active, escalating persecution of an outgroup to persuade an ingroup to willingly give up their freedom. Fascism, unlike most other state ideologies, does not seek equilibrium; it is always starved for an Enemy to exploit and persecute in increasingly harmful ways to satisfy the ingroup, which is why it inevitably collapses. This dynamic is core to fascism as a concept, and noticeably absent from most states throughout history—religious or otherwise—because running full speed ahead towards collapse just isn’t a smart way to set up a state.
To repeat: You said that fascism is a strongman leader protecting the ingroup, but that’s not true; fascism requires the strongman leader to go on the offensive in order to chase a made up vision of greatness for the ingroup and keep that up permanently.
NoneOfUrBusiness is one of the most consistent anti genocide, anti apartheid voices in Lemmy.
Enough so that I recognize their username even without tags.
They’re making a point here, and it isn’t to justify Israels apartheid or genocide.
It’s always been like this, but more importantly: The IDF aren’t (at least primarily) terrorists; they’re a Jewish Wehrmacht launching a war of extermination on the people of Gaza. Calling that terrorism implies that they’re equal to Hamas rather than subjecting Palestinians one of the worst crimes a state can commit.
Literally.
In 1948, both Irgun and Lehi disbanded and merged into the newly formed IDF, though some former members later entered israeli politics. (Yitzhak Shamir: Prime Minister of israel (1983–84, 1986–92). Initially Lehi’s operations chief, he later led the Likud party and upheld hardline Zionist policies)
No points for guessing which party Bibi belongs to, and which currently holds power.
Always has been
They were never defending anything. Their victims just decided to fight back.
Are you talking about the genocidal invaders? lmao.
the paramedic who filmed the video was later found with a bullet in his head in the mass grave. His name has not been disclosed yet because he has relatives living in Gaza concerned about Israeli retaliation
“We killed your son, and it came to light, so now we’re going to kill you.”
It’s truly hard to fathom the depth of evil in isreal right now. And we’re fucking funding it. We’re arming them, and paying them to continue. Meanwhile AIPAC continues to fund primaries against our politicians that speak out. The US is a fucking joke.
Yeah well if they’re in Gaza Israel wants to (and eventually will) kill them regardless.
Don’t forget, the US pays for Israel is to come to the US to train their police departments into believing that every civilian is basically a terrorist that needs to be killed.
I am astonished how silent the west is. Why not a single nation is required to conduct independent investigation and require accountability on Israel’s side.
What happened on the 7th of October was horrible but it is not giving Israel a carte blanche to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Repub or Dem no American in power will censure Israel b/c the U.S. will do nothing to jeopardize our military reach there. It’s a sad fact that is at the basis of all of this, and this fundamental misunderstanding cost Kamala a lot of voters
Everyone wants to pretend it’s satanism or globalism or communism or whatever fucking ism is the bad guy this week but really it’s just that the U.S. refuses to give up willingly the title of ‘world’s best warlord’
I also wonder what are the israelian citizens doing/thinking? Are they all as extreme as Netanjahu? Or am i just missing their demonstrations against genocide?
The Jewish People Policy Institute Israel Index survey found that 8 out of 10 Jewish Israelis agreed with Trump’s proposal of expelling Palestinians from Gaza.
Forty-three percent of all Israelis said that the expulsion plan was “practical” and should be implemented, while 30 percent said the plan was “desirable” but not practical.
A minority of 13 percent - made of up 54 percent of Palestinian respondents and just three percent of Jewish Israelis - described the Trump plan as “immoral”.
That’s fucking disgusting. Even at the start of Russian invasion, their citizens were protesting and going to jail for it. Never saw the same from israeli citizens. Guess this explains why.
like every population they are mixed, and there have been public protests so at least there is some opposition
Mostly I think the average person is just low information and agitated with a constant background of fear and confusion, tribalistic and relying on gut feeling over rationality
There are also some ridiculously greedy and violent bandits that will kill a family for land, but they are in the minority.
They elected Netanyahu in a democratic way. Israeli citizens have zero empathy from me.
Empathy for what? They are going to rule the world, the rest of us are either cattle or vermin for them. All because of a handful of agents.
But also why do you and others in the west keep acting like this started on Oct 7th? Israel has been fucking up Palestine for as long as I can remember.
This is what eventually broke me during the last Trump vs. Biden/Harris election.
I understand a lot of people shit on (non)voters like me, but it was the first time in 20 years that I could not vote either way. I always thought it would get bad, and then worse, and then worse still, but I honestly thought eventually the Biden Admin would grow a pair of gonads and say “enough”. Right around the time the video was released of Israelis setting Palestinians on fire in the Hospital and the IDF throwing people off of roofs, that’s when just something inside of me died.
And it really boggles my head that you have only two political parties there. Like what the heck, what kind of democracy is this?
It’s not a democracy it’s a representative democracy so basically we have a giant suggestion box that our elected leaders can look at and say “I’ll consider that in my vote in Congress”.
well it was put together at the end of the 1700s, by the kind of guys rich enough to take a summer off to go argue with their peers over the details. The whole thing was designed take democratic input without actually having to be beholden to public sentiment. They were pretty open about that fact, it’s all over their correspondences and publications.
Obviously all these years latter it’s not quite the same beast they bred, but it still has the same basic shape and function.
- .... . / -... .. - / - .... .- - / -- .- -.- . ... / -- -.-- / ..-. . .-.. .-.. --- .-- ... / ..- -. -.-. --- -- ..-. --- .-. - .- -... .-.. .
also they were a bunch of
libertarianlaissez-faire slavers what did you expect
^Propaganda account
You caught me 🙄
Why even do it? You can’t be that truly nihilistic
Don’t let people shame you into the lesser of two evils argument because it’s your vote at the end of the day. I heard all sides for the past 10 years now and honestly we got to Trump because of Hillary and not having a party that stood for anything.
It’s not lesser of two evils it’s inaction that’s the issue “the world sucks so let me do absolutely nothing about it whaaaa” just fuck right off to a forest cabin or smt instead of spreading your shit defeatism onto others.
Not what I said. If you think the Democratic party is going to save you than go ahead and keep voting for Chuck Schumer’s fetal position strategy because it’s your vote and you shouldn’t be shamed in voting one way or another same as this guy doing whatever he wants with his vote. That’s it.
You mean like how democrats love to claim their hands are tied on any issue that benefits the common person? Pointing out that electoralism hasn’t worked isn’t defeatism, it’s recognizing reality.
Your right wing democrats aint gonna do fucking shit. They cant even stand up to Trump. They are the ones literally doing nothing and just standing back
IDF members are war criminals. Isreal is genocidal state.
Thats why I call it the IOZ (Israeli Occupied Zone), its not a country its a military occupation
Ingenious. Hoping you won’t mind me stealing it.
Of course, also theres GDF (Genocide Defense Forces)
Israel will claim anything to not seem like genocidal maniacs. Seriously, fuck Netanyahu. The arrogance of killing CLEARLY marked aid workers, and claiming they weren’t marked is baffling.
Does credibility mean nothing anymore?
It hasn’t for quite some time because the powers that be found they can distract everyone with celebrity bullshit and cats on the internet, destroying our collective memory span so they can continue to commit atrocity after atrocity while we are all too depressed and endorphin-seeking to fight back.
And in a few minutes someone will come along to tell me why I am wrong and stupid but no one will care because this is ALL buried in a pile of irrelevant, life eroding infotainment
haha, yeah
It’ll be one of the first cases which has irrefutable proof of war crime, without any scope of ‘they were Hamas’ sissy cry.
Even in WWII soldiers would respect the red cross
What I don’t get is that almost nothing is happening. They are systematically and blatantly committing the most atrocious warcrimes and there is no outcry by the nations. What they do in one day would be enough to denounce any weaker developing country. The west is showing once again that the international community is really all about control, capitalism and racism.
How is it just blamed on “the west”. China, India and other “Eastern” countries are in the UN as well. Would you not have to say it just shows they care nothing about the international community and it is really about their control and power as well? The world is watching executions around the world, and people are just being censored to/from it by their governments. Israel’s biggest trading partner is China by far, almost twice the U.S. Not any huge press from them about stopping.
Good point, I don’t disagree. China doesn’t have a history of writing human rights on their flags though.
The IDF is bombing UN buildings and people are still waffling on calling Israel a terrorist nation is hilarious.
I had to reread this a few times to understand that “waffling” means being hesitant.
Eh am I old? that’s not a strange phrase is it?
It’s not a common international English word and English is not my native language.
Native English speaker, though haven’t lived in the UK (nor any other country with English as the primary/dominant language) since I was a chid.
I’ve heard the phrase a million times said out loud.
First time I’ve seen it in written language, however.
ah yeah I can see that, sorry
No worries.
Well, not that hilarious, really.
It’s hilarious in a “humanity is completely fucked I’m screaming internally” way. This is not sane laughter
I’m no expert but that is a war crime
Throw it on the pile.
Pile of bodies in the mass grave or pile of war crimes and atrocities against humanity?
Yes
I’m a lot closer to being an expert than most people and that’s a war crime.
As well as withholding humanitarian aid and medical supplies during an ongoing war. But apparently no one cares about international law anymore or they do care selectively depending on the nation committing the war crimes.
And it’ll, once again, change fuck all…
At first a crime, then doubling down on the crime and making it a massacre, then destroying evidence and lying to everyone about the circumstances…
…I do wonder if there’s something else the IDF needs to accomplish, for some countries to reconsider their support to Israel.
I’d like to know how all of us watching Israel kill thousands of Palestinians - and we do nothing to stop it - is any different than the world watching Germany kill Jews, gypsies, Poles, scientists, etc in WW2?
There. Is. No. Fucking. Difference.
There is a difference: we’re helping to fund it.
USA was profiting quite nicely off Nazi Germany in World War 2 right up until the USA entered the war in 1941. Some historians argue there is nothing wrong with that. I think many would disagree.
The US government at the time was lobbied heavily by business and private citizens (including the Nazi Party of America) to stay neutral in the war, so they largely did just that right up until Pearl Harbour made it so they could not turn away. There were exceptions, eg: oil and metals used for creating ammunition were agreed not to be sold as part of the Allied Agreement with the UK (and others) and boats coming in and out were blockaded. But even that didn’t stop big fans of fascism, such as the Texaco CEO at the time whom supplied oil to the Nazis up until late 1940.
So, honestly I don’t think a lot has changed.
I guess the US government wasn’t directly funding WW2, but they also didn’t care one bit until it affected them directly - it was making their donors money. Paralleled today the US govt at large doesn’t care, and primarily funds Israel for two reasons: protecting their oil interests in the middle east (business donors and strategic benefits), and every dollar provided in the budget is actually a voucher to go buy some weapons or military equipment from a US firm - so again, its to cynically drive military-industrial investment (strategic) and protect their business donors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany
so they largely did just that right up until Pearl Harbor made it so they could not turn away
FWIW we (the United States) could conceivably have gone on turning away from what Germany was doing even after Pearl Harbor (although that was unlikely given Roosevelt’s anti-Germany stance). Hitler declared war on the US on December 11th, not the other way around.
Yeah, even in my excessively long reply to a one sentence comment I was skipping over a lot of information for brevity, and I’m not a historian. My point was only to illuminate that the US stance pre-WW2 involvement was not dissimilar to today’s - broadly the govt doesnt care that people suffer even to the point of genocide now nor then, as long as national interests (basically business and economy) are unimpeded.
Thanks for the added info.
incredibly disappointing that nations like Saudi Arabia and Turkey rather leverage this opportunity to militarise against fucking Syria and Yemen or Iran, and only go against Israel in words only, whilst selling or buying drones to or from Israel
Disappointed with everyone, especially with Germany for being this anti Palestinian
One of the things I say to my Jewish friends and family is, “explain to me how what Israel is doing - like cutting off food, water and medicine to an entire population of civilians it keeps in a ghetto is anything different that what the national socialist Germans did to the Warsaw Ghetto, because it looks like the exact same thing to me.”
Of all countries on this earth, Israel is without doubt the nastiest, most cruel, least human, most bigoted, worst possible country of them all. The people who have chosen to move to Israel as outsiders are IMO just at responsible for any death of innocent children. Are you an American “Jew”? Well good for you. now fucking stay the fuck where you belong instead of terrorizing random families thousands of miles away under the excuse that you own their house or whatever fucking messed up crap you can come up with. I have edited this comment to remove a section which I was made aware is Anti-Semitic due to conflating Judaism with Zionism - thanks for making me aware. I got carried away and regret the harsh tone of the original comment.
There are plenty of anti-Israeli Jews. Don’t paint us all with the same brush.
Anti Israeli Jews are very brave in my book.
Nearly every Jewish institution has been infected with the cancer that is zionism.
I agree with much of what you’re saying… But it’s antisemitic to conflate judaism with zionism.
Zios can be jewish, christian, atheist, “muslim”, etc. Conversely many jews are not zionist.
There’s little reason to even talk about jewish people when the actual problem is the genocidal ideology of zionism.
Thank you for this, it is always nice to be corrected and actually learn something. I do apologise for the original comment and how it came out more harsh than intended. It is good to know there are actually many Jewish people who do not identify with Israel’s actions and don’t consider themselves Zionists. It is too easy to get revved up and write angry things on the internet. Thankfully this is a good media and people are actually being helpful and providing some great feedback.
Interesting thing that there are more Zionist Christians than Jewish (is it called Jewish or Jews in this case?) Definitely worth reading up on this part.
is it called Jewish or Jews in this case?
Jews. A thing can be Jewish, a group of people can be Jews. Another rule of thumb you can use is adjective vs noun.
The crazy thing is that you’d think of all the people in the world, the Jews in Israel would understand the importance of compassion and giving other groups of people respect and dignity. As it turns out, the fastest way to make a Nazi is to have someone live through their atrocities.
This is historically inaccurate. Zionism predates the holocaust by decades. It has always been a fascist ideology and zionists often collaborated with the nazis. The idea of a “pure” racist state is the common goal.
Jews who understand all of this oppose zionism.
To be fair, one should acknowledge the conditions in Europe under which Zionism was created. In a growing wave of antisemitism at the end of the 19th century, Dühring wrote in a 1881 pamphlet:
He described the “Jewish question” as an expression of an irresolvable racial antagonism, and openly advocated for the “murder and extermination” of Jews as a solution to the Jewish question.
Many scholars believe that Dühring’s invention of a modern-sounding antisemitism helped persuade Theodor Herzl that Zionism was the only answer.
There was a growing fear that there could be no cultural assimilation and that Jews would continue to be persecuted, as they, in fact, were. Zionism was a proposed solution to that atmosphere of hate. It’s easy with the foresight of 150 years to label it as a flawed idea.
This is not an excuse for modern day Israel’s actions, and obviously the conditions for Jews in Europe are better today (since we are just scapegoating Muslims nowadays instead), it’s just an understanding of how the fuck we got to this point.
Early Zionists even openly acknowledged that the only way for them to escape persecution was to persecute and expel the inhabitants of Palestine.
And it doesn’t change the fact that Israel and Zionists still the Holocaust as an excuse for their actions.
This right here! I have been astounded at this over and over. If there was ever a group that should be sensitive to the idea of genocide it should be the Israelis, but instead they have simply adopted the beliefs and behavior of their worst oppressors.
And then when anyone dares to criticize them, they go right to playing the genocidal victim of the Nazis - who they are obviously emulating!
Frankly, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for their enemies either. If they could manage to gather the same power as Israel, they would happily unleash it in return, and murder every single Israeli. BOTH sides are fully, unapologetically dedicated to the genocide of the other side. Neither is worthy of support.
It’s incomprehensible.
You shouldn’t both sides a genocide just as a rule of thumb tho
Except when it’s true.
Y’know, I’m starting to think those Israelis are a bunch of fucking assholes.
If they do just one more genocide I’m gonna start getting a little angry
I lay the blame at the IDF and their far-right Likud government who has openly said they will protect any IDF soldiers accused of war crimes.
I don’t wish to tar a whole country with the same brush.
Wow, even the NYT is reporting on it?
A colleague lost his brother with this convoy. The path / location of the convoy was shared with the israelis too. They were executed and the vehicles completely destroyed.
Same as the Hind Rajab case (and countless others). More than a year on Israel is still ‘investigating’.
