One of the men goes for her phone. The other grabs at her hands. Ozturk screams. Shock and fear ripple through her voice. Two masked women join them, tugging at her backpack, peeling the straps from her shoulders. “I’m going somewhere, I need to call someone,” she pleads. “We’re the police. Relax,” one of the men says in response.
They surround her. Then, one by one, they pull their neck gaiters up to cover their faces. “You don’t look like police,” a voice off screen says. “Why are you hiding your faces?” The questions continue, but the figures don’t respond. Instead, they cuff Ozturk, cross the street, and put her in an unmarked SUV. She is gone.
For the record, and I know I’m not the first to say it, this woman committed NO crime. She didn’t overstay a visa, she didn’t protest illegally. She wrote something the administration didn’t like.
For that, she was arrested by 8 masked officers in the middle of the street, in broad daylight. She was thrown in the back on an unmarked SUV. She’s received no legal representation. No trial. Not even charges, because again, she committed no crime.
Americans, you realize you’re watching the death of your rights and the rule of law, right? You have no illusions about the fact that you are defenseless? There is no longer any guardrail between you and an El Salvadoran prison camp. In something that reminds me very much of Stalin, an accusation is now a conviction.
Defenseless is a good word, it seems like we’re all just waiting for a savior to show up and rescue us. It doesn’t help that a large amount of Americans see protest as pointless right now. What it feels like is the bystander effect on a national level.
The worst part is how many people either support or just brush it off.
After all that trashing of Russians and why they do not fight against their government, the world gets to see that Americans are basically the same: so many fall for the dumbest possible propaganda and the rest is either afraid or apathetic.
Humans are the same everywhere. Political structures and cultures are not, but humans have evolved for much longer.
Which is why when you (if you do) think about the EU being some land of honey, it would be wise to also think “what am I missing if I don’t see similar problems there”.
I agree. We had over 20% far right votes here in Germany recently. Russian propaganda is going strong, too. Somehow I hope that watching the rapid disassembly of the US under Trump should open the eyes of some of them, but I am grasping at straws here.
Americans see protest as pointless right now.
Americans have seen a generation of peaceful protests that were crushed and villified. Anti-WTO, Anti-Iraq War, Occupy Wall Street, George Floyd, etc; all failed to achieve any of their stated goals.
And now that the fascists have taken control, peaceful protest is even less effective. For peaceful protest to succeed your opponent must have empathy, and fascists have none.
The last protest movement that accomplished something substantial was the civil rights movement. It was not peaceful, it was militant. I think we need a modern Black Panther Party.
For peaceful protests to succeed they must attract more people to the cause and gather momentum. Protests now would be useful for bringing people together and emboldening people to resist what’s going on. They are a step in building a movement. To say “protests alone don’t change things” misses this point.
Exactly, you need armed protest.
It doesn’t help that a large amount of Americans see protest as pointless right now.
It’s the wheel of life:
-
Protests help something, but they are hard, violent, inconvenient, people die, money is lost, but they achieve goals and generally people know that protests and breaking everything around is necessary. Cutting infrastructure, beating officials (including police) to pulp, closing roads. Stopping factories (ok, that’s not a problem in the first world), stopping trucks and trains, stopping mail. Causing blackouts.
-
To avoid that, people talk. They form mechanisms to avoid real protests, but these mechanisms are dependent on real protests. Like gold standard - it’s supported by circulation, so if you can’t fall back to gold, you can’t really call it gold standard. It’s the same with protests. Real democracy is dependent on falling back to protests and just killing a few of the government jerks who think they are some kind of thief aristocracy.
-
People have long, really long period of questions being resolved by talking. And if it comes to protests, these are soft protests and they - mistake - become too subject for discussion, like let’s not go to those streets, let’s not hurt businesses, let’s follow these rules and obey police.
-
People get used to that.
-
The protest gold standard is in fact abolished, you’ve been softly and slowly made a serf, congratulations.
-
Try protesting now, you’ll get absolutely abused for doing pretty normal things.
OK, I’m from Russia, here people looked at tanks on the streets of Moscow in a few crises and decided they are smart and wise to follow rules made by thieves and murderers.
-
There have been weekly protests of this shit across the country since the asshole was elected. It’s not helping. And even the “opposition party” is capitulating to the bullshit. What else are we supposed to do?
She also had her visa revoked so can no longer legally stay in the USA to complete her studies, or enter again. This was because she wrote an op-ed disapproving of Israel’s genocide.
Remember “Better be Russian than a democrat” guys? Well, now they’re Russian!
We .need to arm ourselves and shoot fuckers like this. If you see fuckets like this trying to take someone intervene and shoot to kill. We need rise up. Because yes we are next.
Just start by protesting, protecting, and block them from doing this shit when possible. If you go directly full terrorist mode, it means they won…
They already won, are you from another species? Are you watching this?
full terrorist mode
You mean… like these fuckers?
They won a (ok a bit more) battle, not the war! Move your ass, rebuild your democracy and add safeguards so you never let such hateful, retarded people in this position again.
Black Panthers open carried.
You have no illusions about the fact that you are defenseless?
We have guns. Lots of guns.
Everyone needs to arm themselves and train.
I suspect your government would love it if you started shooting. They’d declare martial law. Goodbye elections, hello police state.
They will do this either way.
There is no bargaining with these people. They will not not escalate from their side. By not escalating from your side you only encourage their escalation as they face no repercussions.
That’s true actually - they are escalating pretty hard already.
As a long-term peacenik though, I hate the thought of gun battles on the streets. I wish you all the very best. I first visited the US in 1976 and have toured around a lot since then. My one single bad experience was Homeland Security when transiting through LAX. We’re tourists not terrorists, jeez cool your jets! I can’t imagine how bad ICE is.
Your guns don’t compare to the guns the government use. Nor do you have the numbers to resist even if equally armed. If the 1/3 of voters that didn’t vote, actually voted for for Harris, you wouldn’t be in this mess but there you are.
Yeah well, ask the Afghans or Vietnamese. Turns out you don’t need to have the same fire power to drag your opponent through the mud.
The Afghans and Vietnamese had nothing to lose. Americans, no matter how much they complain online, have everything to lose.
The Vietnamese had some of the greatest strategic minds in their history leading the fight against the Americans.
So far, it doesn’t seem like there’s a single leader for a resistance in the U.S., and certainly none as skilled in tactics.
Where do you expect the resistance leaders to come from?
From the state resistance leadership school, with the public resistance leadership grant? If you dont form a resistance you cannot create resistance leaders
What do you mean about numbers? The state and it’s guards are always massively outnumbered by the people, it’s just a question of organization.
But how many people are willing to risk their life without immediate danger to themselves (yet)?
and if we had a time machine we could fix all this. STFU. GUNS.
I had a decent amount I got back from taxes that I intentionally spent. I’m mentally ill. I’m off my meds because I cant risk withdrawl from going back on them only to have RFK take them away again. I’ll lose my job. It doesnt pay enough for me to get by anyway. If I kept that money, I know I would have bought that gun. And I would have used it on myself.
I’m still not sure I did the right thing spending myself into this hole to keep a gun away. I know using it on my oppressors wouldnt likely succeed. I’m more likely to use it on myself.
I still dont know if it was the right thing to do to not buy the gun.
For the record, and I know I’m not the first to say it, this woman committed NO crime.
Ozturk
The state rests it’s case.
She wrote something the administration didn’t like.
What was written?
She expressed anti-Palestinian genocide sentiments.
In New America that gets you disappeared by masked thugs.
A couple of op-eds for a Student newspaper criticizing Israel? I thought I saw the pieces linked earlier but I don’t see them now. The article linked on this post says it supported a student divestment program and referenced the International Criminal Court calling attacks on Gaza a genocide.
Hardly spicy compared to your average social media post.
Yes.
America has always been more or less of a fascist state, and this is not new activity, although it is worse and more brazen in a lot of ways. Civil Rights for ethnic minorities has always been pretty iffy.
30% of the country loves this shit, and another large fraction doesn’t even know it’s going on. A lot of us are working to try to change things. The media is not covering all of the demonstrations, but we definitely need more people to get angry.
Also, this is just the rehearsal until they go for political opponents with American citizenship.
What the fuck do we do? I’m in a hyperliberal city in one of the few blue states left. We are relatively safe for now. I make a comfortable amount of money that I use to support my wife and friends who sometimes may not have necessities. I cannot risk my job by taking every day off to protest. Protests also seem meaningless to go to for me in my city because they’re happening in a safer city.
I am donating to the ACLU every month, but idk what else we can be doing. What can we be doing?
Organize armed protests. Connect in your neighborhood, so if this shit goes down, and it will start going down in your neighborhood soon enough, people can show up, free the victim and bog down the attackers.
Time for Canada to annex Pacific Coast states(at least) then we can live in a functioning democracy again.
Cascadia when?
Ozturk’s lawyer later said she hadn’t been able to contact her and had no idea of her whereabouts.
America, the land of the free… Right?
Remember when conservatives were all like fear mongering that Obama was going to do this to them? It was always projection.
Free to the power of the people in uniform!
Or people not in uniform seemingly. Easiest time ever to actually kidnap people: Get your thugs together, get a van, kidnap your target person from the street, while yelling “shut up, we are the police”. Outcome is essentially the same
Who ever told you that is your enemy.
Link to the song, for those who don’t know the reference.
Thanks for linking that
The two following lines are very relevant too
Now something must be done About vengeance, a badge, and a gun
deleted by creator
A Department of Homeland Security spokesperson later claimed Ozturk “engaged in activities in support of Hamas, a foreign terrorist organization.” The person said Ozturk, who is from Turkey, had had her student visa revoked.
To be perfectly clear, Ozturk is not accused of breaking the law. The Department of Homeland Security hasn’t bothered to explain its reasoning, but several outlets reported that Ozturk co-authored a student opinion piece urging Tufts to recognize the International Court of Justice’s declaration of a “plausible risk of genocide” unfolding in Gaza and to divest from Israel. You can read the article if you like. It does not mention Hamas.
WT actual F? A school opinion piece gets you disappeared??
We FUCKING TOLD ALL OF YOU THIS WOULD HAPPEN. And you said we were being hyperbolic.
It will get worse.
How long do people think it will take for there to be shooting over this? Not everyone is going to just let people get disappeared in front of them without doing anything.
They bred soul out of Americans a long time ago.
Liberals in America have willingly neutered themselves over the past 70 years. The only group in America willing to resort to anti government violence is currently in power.
deleted by creator
Who are you addressing here
Probably anyone who’s shocked at this happening.
All the “Trump won’t be so bad” idiots.
I don’t think there’s a lot of those around here. Kind of off-putting because I knew it would be bad, and now have to live it.
They were EVERYWHERE right before the election.
All the people who said to ‘punish’ the Democrats by not voting or voting for Russian assets Jill Stein or Donald Trump.
Probably the Americans.
Let’s see if they bother to take any actual real action though, or if they just keep insisting there’s nothing they can do.
I have a vested interest in them actually doing something positive about their situation, because in a few years if they don’t, Europe and her allies will find itself in a World War, defending itself from Fascist USA aggression :-(
At least we didn’t support genocide /s
You see ‘Genocide Joe’ had to be defeated for vague reasons I will not explain. No, I will not address that his opponent explicitly supports ethnic cleansing, and war. Instead, I will call you a genocide supporting piece of shit.
/s
Latest that I got was “antisemitic” for criticizing voting for Stein on account of her ties to Russian oligarchs and the Green Party’s abject lack of any attempt to organize or run down-ballot candidates that could have a positive impact. I then discovered that it was an alt for a tankie from the grad.
Wait till he goes after citizens. You can’t vote democrat if you have a felony for… something.
This is the Thought Police, brought to you by the people who invoke 1984 when their putrid opinions get called out on the internet.
Lesson for non citizens. You don’t have a first amendment right in this country under this administration.
Honestly, for citizens, I am sure he will find ways of punishing us for free speech as well.
They already do, it’s called gangstalking. If you can dig through the bullshit about aliens and nonsense that they put out their to make it look like a conspiracy… The goal is to make people that talk the truth look insane. We have been in a psychological war for a long time.
I don’t think America has been the good guy long before trump. What’s happening now is a long time effort. There are ideologies and organizations older than America.
It can’t be fixed, just destroyed.
Gangstalking is very real. The people trying to discredit it are the ones who benefit from it. More people need to understand these tactics, as it will likely become more common as time goes on. It’s painted to look like a conspiracy, but it’s very similar to what the stasi did to people in eastern Germany also called “zersetzung”.
It’s eerily similar to how American politics has been working.
Ahh America’s certainly had its oopsies… A little Tuskegee syphilis here, a little spot of genocide there…
:-/
Hey if I may touch on something:
Readers unfamiliar, please review definition of gangstalking :)
An example:
tl;dr (embellished): average narcissistic family invests tremendous resources to bother some family member who seems to hop between random jobs; their head swivels constantly as they stare at the stalkers all around them, and they wonder why people stare back
Want folks to be aware of the context here. btw the only people I’ve ever seen dismantle this kinda thing has been western educated sciency folks (lab coats, MD in title, etc.) plus they’re not the type to harass and make too much money to be roped into schemes (induced to harass). Thank you!
Not even anything radical. Just “recognize ICC and stop giving money plz”
White Rose movement got a girl and her brother beheaded in Nazi Germany. For pretty much this.
Edit: (wrong flower and wrong relationship and yeah others were executed i just read about them)
I’m pretty sure you mean the White Rose five Students and a University Professor were executed by the Gestapo for graffiti and leaflets. Best known are the siblings Sophie and Hans Scholl.
Yeah it’s been a while since I read about it thanks for correcting it
Canary Mission = White *Rose
AHA! That’s what got me confused thank you!
This is terrifying. Anybody can pretend to be ICE and kidnap in broad daylight.
Yes , it’s unsettling.
How long do you think until an ICE agent is killed in the line of “duty”? A week, a month? And how many seconds after it happens will the government use it as an excuse to ratchet up the violence?
What was fascinating, or perhaps horrific is a better word, about the article that I didn’t know about is the brief mention of “The Canary Mission”
Here’s from their about page:
Canary Mission documents individuals and organizations that promote hatred of the USA, Israel and Jews on North American college campuses and beyond. Canary Mission investigates hatred across the entire political spectrum, including the far right, far left and anti-Israel activists.
Canary Mission is motivated by a desire to combat the rise in anti-Semitism on college campuses. We pursue our mission by presenting the words and deeds of individuals and organizations that engage in anti-Semitism, racism and bigotry on the far right, far left and among the array of organizations that comprise the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement.
Essentially they gather dossiers on private individuals that they claim are anti-semitic. So, I looked up the woman that was taken off the street like a Ukrainian draft-dodger.
https://canarymission.org/individual/Rumeysa_Ozturk
Rumeysa Ozturk engaged in anti-Israel activism in March 2024, in the wake of the Hamas terrorist attacks on Israelis on October 7, 2023.
Ozturk is a supporter of the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement.
What was the anti-Israel activism, you ask? I figured it was some sort of protest. Sort of like the one in New York where they occupied a building.
Nope
On March 26, 2024, Ozturk co-authored an op-ed published in the Tufts Daily newspaper titled: “Try again, President Kumar: Renewing calls for Tufts to adopt March 4 TCU Senate resolutions.” The authors urged “President Kumar and the Tufts administration to meaningfully engage with and actualize the resolutions passed by the Senate.”
The op-ed referred to the passing of anti-Israel resolutions by the Tufts Community Union (TCU) Senate, which demanded the University “…acknowledge the Palestinian genocide, apologize for University President Sunil Kumar’s statements, disclose its investments, and divest from companies with direct or indirect ties to Israel.”
At Tufts university, the Community Union Senate (not really sure what this is. a student council or something) passed a 3/5ths majority resolution urging the president of the university to
-
acknowledge the Palestinian genocide
-
apologize for some statements, I don’t know what
-
disclose its investments
-
divest from companies with direct or indirect ties to Israel
She co-wrote an op-ed essentially demanding the president follow the resolution that was passed. That’s the “anti-Israel activism” she’s guilty of. I suppose that’s enough to be deported. Be careful out there guys. If you aren’t a citizen, shut up about your political views until you are. Because there are eyes out there watching everything you do. Even if you are… consider what you are doing. You may be making an enemy of a vindictive state that is willing to break the rules.
Here’s the op-ed, in case you’re interested: https://www.tuftsdaily.com/article/2024/03/4ftk27sm6jkj
These resolutions were the product of meaningful debate by the Senate and represent a sincere effort to hold Israel accountable for clear violations of international law. Credible accusations against Israel include accounts of deliberate starvation and indiscriminate slaughter of Palestinian civilians and plausible genocide.
Lock 'em up, I guess. If you believe that Palestinian civilians have a right to life then you are a terrorist-sympathizer in this administration’s opinion.
In the opinion of the last administration too.
Not both sidesing anything. This administration is definitely being more fascist about it and this is chilling and terrifying.
But it’s not like the last one had a different opinion.
i don’t disagree. i think this one specifically is currently taking aim at muslims specifically while the other was more generalized
Yeah, that’s true.
This is frightening.
Why isn’t Musk on there?
where?
The canary site. He doesn’t think too highly of Jewish folk.
-
Look at their body language.
These aren’t law enforcement professionals detaining a suspect.
These are Nazi Brown Shirt thugs ganging up on a fucking PhD student.
This country is nosediving HARD. Arm yourselves. I would never allow plain-clothed thugs to push me into an unmarked van and take me to a secondary location. You are fighting for your life at that point for all you know.
“We’re the police. Relax”
“We’re the SS. Be very afraid”. There, FTFY
Legit, from her perspective, this is no different from a human trafficking kidnapping, this is the shit my wife has taken classes to learn to defend herself from, it’s only a matter of time before someone defends themselves (unknownly assaulting an officer and assuredly setting off some punitive, authoritarian political bullshit)
Damn, I didn’t know it was this easy. Just pretend to be an undercover cop. Oh wow, this changes everything. Brb adding more to my collection of kids in my basement.
/s
This shit has happened in NYC. Thieves roll on you and claim to be cops.
Literally disappearing people off the street
Didn’t the U.S. fight a war against a country and its leader who did the same shit? I was never very proud to be an American because this country has done some fucked up shit since 1776. But this is downright terrifying to me as someone who is disabled and considered a parasite by Elon because if they aren’t stopped after this then it’s game over for any “non-white” people, LGBTQ+, and poor people in general to be disappeared.
This may be why they want Greenland so bad 🤔
They want Greenland because the Trump admin is convinced the next big intl. power struggle will be about resources in the arctic circle.
And also of course because they’re fascist imperialists and terrorizing/annexing their neighbors is the typical MO.
Since the 19th century, the United States has considered, and made, several attempts to purchase the island of Greenland from Denmark, as it did with the Danish West Indies in 1917. There were notable internal discussions within the U.S. federal government about acquiring Greenland in 1867, 1910, 1946, 1955, 2019, and 2025, and acquisition has been advocated by American secretaries of state William H. Seward and James F. Byrnes, privately by Vice President Nelson Rockefeller, and publicly by President Donald Trump, among others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_United_States_acquisition_of_Greenland
It took the Nazis a few years to come for the disabled and mentally ill:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4
Let’s see if the US can speedrun it.
They already want to declare people criticizing Trump as mentally ill in order to silence them. That speed run is in full effect.
The guy who introduced that bill (allegedly) likes to fuck kids. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/18/minnesota-justin-eichorn-arrested-soliciting-minor
Fucking Nazis. Where the fuck is she
Apparently she’s already in Louisiana. As per the Bostonglobe
In Louisiana awaiting a Nazi judge to rubber stamp their blatant kidnapping of this woman
En route to El Salvador.
Type of shit they tell you to expect in China, except its the USA
From 1933 to 1934 in 3 months. Clock is ticking dear american people.
How many months from 1934 to 1984?
1939 is also of interest
Time has run out. The only option is to do the right thing, which will involve people intervening and dying.
The head of the snake needs to be cut off. That will be incredibly difficult. Vance, Musk, Hegesth, Rubio, all need to be handled.
The White House is the most secure building in this country. That’s not hyperbole. It has anti-air missiles, snipers, and who knows what the fuck else. You hop that fence and everyone in that direction is dead.
It can be done, but the organizing hasn’t grown large enough. There are groups that are loud and obvious. And there are others that keep quiet.
If this were easy it would have been done already.
Everyone in the presidential line of succession are monsters. The entire government is being reshaped into a totalitarian state. A full revolution or counter-coup is needed. I don’t see a revolutionary movement being organized any time soon. Maybe if we get into Great Depression-like conditions. I think the amount of surveillance, well-developed counter-intelligence tactics, and power of the state in modern America would still make a revolution very hard to pull off though. I suppose extremely popular mass civil disobedience could also bring everything to a halt and make the US ungovernable; not sure what would actually happen to the government though.
AP’s article mentions that Ozturk was posted on this website, https://canarymission.org/
After the op-ed was published, Ozturk’s name, photograph and work history were published on the website Canary Mission, which describes itself as documenting people who “promote hatred of the U.S.A., Israel and Jews on North American college campuses.”
'Tis a spooky place. No names, none of the articles have bylines, contact is just a webform, domain registration is anonymized, donation link is being washed thru some company called RTech Digital Marketing out of India.
Really got me wondering, who the fuck are these people and why do they seem to have ICE’s ear.
If you see this start filming and get them to shout their name. This is not how an arrest is done in a normal country. This is how you disappear people and how militias can fake being police to abduct and kill people.
What else was the alternative? A mixed-race woman as President?
I’m laughing to keep from crying.
This isn’t about race, it’s about class, at least for the demographics that the democrats are targeting. Kamala is mixed race but she represents the interests of the owning class and she just did absolutely nothing to sway votes in her favor. Trump is arguably much worse, but people should stop pretending a white candidate would have won over republican voters.
Idk bringing out the big guns of a cheney instead I’d her progressive VP pick in the final days of the campaign should have sealed it. Must be racism.
This is THE problem. Statements like this. She did the ONLY thing she had to do. The failing was not hers, it was COLLECTIVELY ours. The failing was not making her president. How are people still not getting that no matter what, she was clearly and without doubt the better choice. THAT is what matters. Everyone trying to split hairs and justify her not winning, still doesn’t get it.
Not to mention people who wouldn’t vote for Donald Trump spouting this bullshit when all evidence directly calls out manipulation from Elon himself as well as Putin himself. Those two factors should be taking precedence in everyone who didn’t vote for Trump’s minds. Not this half baked “she didn’t try hard enough” bullshit.
The failing was decades and centuries ago that led to this. Power has been consolidating in the presidency since the constitution was signed as the legislature and courts are happy to give more and more of their power over to the executive.
We’ve only been protected by being lucky having presidents and their staff with genuine care for the intent of the constitution.
This was only a matter of time. It wasn’t our fault. This is America.
This is getting old. The failing has escalated over the last decades, when politicians of all parties abandoned the working class / middle class and catered towards the ultra rich instead. They gradually shifted to the right and now the republicans are right wing extremists and the democrats are a right wing party too. Biden and Harris allowed the Gaza genocide to unfold and continued many of Trump‘s policies on migration even though they could have reverted them easily. They chose to serve their donors instead of the people and people just got tired of it. The democrats have themselves to blame, not the people pointing their failures out.
The fact that this is still contentious for Americans goes to show how far gone they are. Liberal democrats just can’t seem to fathom the basic reality of what you’re saying, they’re so focused on aesthetics and “we need a mixed race woman president” over “we need to fix wealth inequality.” It’s about as brain dead as MAGA but with virtue signalling, “Yeah I support Israel, no it’s not a genocide, rich people earned that money fair and square, and have no influence on our democracy” meanwhile they put on a rainbow flag badge on Pride month and say “I’m a progressive, and I support protesters (so long as they’re not disruptive.)”
Kamala is part of the problem. Unchecked neoliberal capitalism has created Trump. Yes, obviously, I would prefer the status quo over fascism. We all would.
But as long as the majority of the country is financially insecure fascism will rise. Establishment DNC is just as guilty as the establishment GOP in causing this tragedy
you keep feeding the oligarchs long enough and they attempt a coup.
What else was the alternative? A mixed-race woman as President?
Yeah, I’m not playing your stupid “pick one zionist or another” game.
I despise republicans, and always have, but I despise traitors on my own side even more. If its a choice between fighting the people we’ve always fought or fighting the murderous traitorous political hostage takers in our own party who espouse the same evils our enemies do, for sure I’m going to clean house of the traitors first, and give them 10x the loathing I would give a traditional enemy. Backstabbing war criminals deserve no less, and Harris was a backstabber who chose to lose rather than throw the Palestinians a bone. That was her choice.
And thats who you want to complain about now? Not bothered that she supported war crimes when the republic was at stake, but just that someone with dark skin and female sex organs didnt win? Seems like a pretty trite and privelaged concern for you to engage in when innocent human children are being blown apart.
and to be clear, I didnt vote for either Harris or Trump. I left just that section blank.
So all based on your last sentence, you’re partially responsible for the shit storm we’re in now?
I dont vote for any mass murderer. You did.
Shall we go back to school and use Humes simple test for ethics? “What if everyone did that?” If everyone votes like you do we’re always going to have a dem who’s merely slightly better than the fascist from here on out. You voted to keep this hostage vting situation going indefinitely. I chose to let it light itself on fire, which happened without the left lighting a single match. If the dems werent on side because they wanted to take zionist money, thats not on me. The dems left their traditional platform, we leftists didnt leave it-- we’re still standing where we’ve always stood. And the zionists were never about to allow the dems to get their own direction back.
What’s really trite and “privelaged” is scolding others because they didn’t make Palestine their only voting concern. I guess the death of the US and every vulnerable group in it is worth it to people with that opinion.
On a very personal level, I’m trans. Your voting ideology has directly contributed to the loss of my rights, my safety, and my future. Go ahead and scold me because some bomb I had no say in was used halfway across the world to kill children. I just wanted people to vote for the person who wouldn’t make SS black bag people in broad daylight.
I guess the death of the US and …blah blah blah
That was a winnable race. Harris dchose to lose listening to her zionist boss, her zionist husband and her zionist campaign manager brother in law. I am just a voter with some ethics unlike you lot of war crimes jrs.
and
EDIT: Can’t stand to keep your bullshit unedited?
yeah I’m sorry that edit button exists. I dont know what to tell you. Theres probably a complaint form around here someplace you can use. Sometimes you need a couple edits to get a concise message. Such is life on reddit and lemmy.
No, you aren’t a voter. You told us you didn’t vote (for president anyway). That’s the point.
Your moral grandstanding helped make the very issue you are championing completely unrecoverable, and a bunch of us are now under the bus as a result. Palestinians are almost certain to be wiped out now, no matter how badly many of us wanted to end the genocide and hold Israel accountable. You have cut off your nose to spite your face.
I see, so its the anti genocide/“basic human rights arent negotiable” side thats at fault for the US falling apart?
I see, so its the anti genocide/“basic human rights arent negotiable” side thats at fault for the US falling apart?
I see, so it’s the anti-fascist/“basic human rights apply in our country too” side who are at fault for the genocide of Palestinians? 🙄
So your “fighting fascists” fight is simply to vote for one of their manufactured war crimes choices both of which demanded you personally be accountable for assisting in murder?
Fascism lite is still fascism. Killing fewer people is still killing, and its wildly illegal and immoral, full stop.
Harris’s platform was wildly illegal and immoral. So was trumps. I’m not about to be nagged or threatened into giving my vote to either of those camps.
If that means the country burns itself down then thats fine, we just get a chance to get to the endgame faster where we build it back up to something better. There was nothing down the road of siding with Harris except more zionist puppeteering, and training you all to be nazi prison guards while you deal with the cognitive dissonance of Harris continuing the genocide after you had a hand in getting her in office.
On a very personal level, I’m trans. Your voting ideology has directly contributed to the loss of my rights, my safety, and my future.
Harris read the polls on the number of people like yourself who would make a deal on her platform. People like yourself who care mostly about your trans rights, even if we’re talking about murder of innocents. With that data she thought she could roll the dice on winning. If fewer people had not projected that they’d allow her platform to win, she would have changed it. And we wouldnt be in this spot. Let me ask, did you vote uncommitted in the dem primary? It wouldnt have cost much of anything in terms of results of that race.
You didnt did you.
EDIT: Can’t stand to keep your bullshit unedited? Not going to go on about how I only choose my safety and trans rights now and I have blood on my hands? Gonna pivot to the dem primaries, which in my state only had Biden on the ballot?
So sounds like people like you are partially to blame for all this crazy shit.
And Trump will be worse directly with Palestine, just give him time. He’s seemingly already given Israel the go-ahead to kill whoever they want. What was it that Israeli official said in the video a week ago - the worst is yet to come?
Trump will add a cherry on top for you and build a golf course or strip mall in Gaza over the wreckage and remains of dead Palestinians.
Biden/Harris killed almost 50 thousand people on their watch. It’ll be much more when the bones of dead civilians pinned under rubble are actually counted.
If you were honest you’d say you considered both of the candidate to be equal on the gaza war crimes and you voted to keep the rest of your life going undisturbed
You’re conveniently ignoring the fact that most of that happened in the months immediately following 10/7. Of course Israel was going to be at peak insanity at that point…
Bold your text all you want lmao whoever we voted for here wasn’t going to change the US from sending money and arms to Israel in the short term. Harris at least wouldn’t have deported and locked up protestors. We’d at least have a voice - which would’ve left an opportunity for things to get better. Anyone pro-Palestine here is fucked now when it comes to that.
She’s also not buddy-buddy with Netanyahu like the special needs orangutan. You absolutely knew what you were getting with Trump if you voted for him or abstained. Anyone that says differently is ignorant as hell or has been on a deserted island cut off from the world for the past 10 years.
and to be clear, I didnt vote for either Harris or Trump. I left just that section blank.
Well, fuck you. You don’t get a say, then.
Thats fine. Youve got blood on your hands.
You literally have the fact that there’s a fascist in chief in office; a sycophant pillaging the federal reserve and keeping our tax dollars for himself; an entire cult of personality that’s now in charge of our judicial, executive, and legislative branches, giving the fascists complete control our government withdraw literally no oversight; rights are being taken away from everyone; actual natural-born US citizens are being “deported” (read: kidnapped and trafficked) to foreign countries like Venezuela and El Salvador; alllllll on your hands, and millions of others just like you.
I despise republicans, and always have, but I despise traitors on my own side even more.
Completely understandable on an emotional level, but if you’re not careful this can easily turn into an accidental alliance with Republicans, and it often does.
if you’re not careful this can easily turn into an accidental alliance with Republicans, and it often does.
OK, it seems to me to be very remotely possible but unlikely.
I’d argue that you’re coming from a consequentialism “the ends justifies the means” standpoint wheras I’m coming from deontological ethics.
I think you’re arguing that “you can do whatever you want to as long as it leads to some identified desired outcome”.If republicans are pushing for fascism, as we all seem to perceive here, my approach is the exact opposite of that. You dont need to take my opinion on it, you can use classic models which are a whole lot better than nothing. If you read up (its 60 seconds, I promise) on consequentialism you will see the Harris campaign outlined pretty spot on, and if you read up on deontology you will see the ani genocide crowd, again spot on. Then take a step back and think which is a better way to fight the vast and sprawling abuses of fascism.
I dont think winging it ends-justifies-the-means style is going to cut it with these stakes. I’m not saying I’m sure I’m right, but I’m positive that I’m doing my best just like I 'd guess a lot of you think you are. When we think of what a bright future is, its a system of laws that irons out basic unfairness and brutality. We all want this. We disagree on how to get there.
Hot take: deontological ethics is a sad way to avoid taking responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
I don’t think the ends justify the means, and in equal measure I don’t think the means justify the ends.
Then take a step back and think which is a better way to fight the vast and sprawling abuses of fascism.
I’m all for hearing a better way of fighting fascism. Letting a death cult take control of all branches of government was definitely a method. I’m not going to stop listening but like… what the fuck are we doing?
When we think of what a bright future is, its a system of laws that irons out basic unfairness and brutality. We all want this. We disagree on how to get there.
Oh yeah, I want this, and I disagree very heavily with the death cult absolute power method. But I don’t have a choice now, it’s up to you now to prove that fighting alongside the death cult was the better choice.
Wow, you taught Democrats a real lesson there! At the cost of even more Palestinian lives!
“We did it, Patrick, we saved Palestine!”
Seems to me that you’re the type of person who, when faced by a thug asking if you’d like their daughter punched in the face or stomach, would pick a spot, and hold the person who forced the choice blameless. In fact you’d elect them to rule over you.
“Saving Palestine”. was not going to happen under either candidate, and the genocide so far has been under dem leadership. Any of that untrue?
Not making a choice is also a choice.
Your option in your own scenario is walking away from your daughter knowing she will get punched in the face.
You knew that by not voting blue, way more people would suffer. You knew that and you willingly let it happen. Enough of “yous” got us where we are now.
Just because your issue didn’t get adressed by any of the candidates, you willingly walked away, knowing that not voting would inflict more suffering, than voting blue. I want to let you know, that I think you are a garbage person.
By the way, I am not from the US.
I wasnt out to teach a lesson, I was out to let this place implode. I dont export our countries war crimes to other places because thats momentarily more convenient for me-- like you’d prefer.
Ohh, so you’re an accelerationist! Now your comments make sense. Well, except the one claiming you’re anti-genocide, but the rest make sense. Kinda.
If our system requires blood to keep functioning then it needs to be smashed and recreated. You’d have it just continue. Although your desire to limp it along kinda makes a sad sort of sense, if you ignore your own hand in keeping it going.
“This whole system needs to be smashed and recreated, it’s fine if the country burns itself down”
“Btw you’re the one with blood on your hands, I definitely think basic human rights aren’t negotiable”
“We’re the police relax” says the gestapo mother fucker disappearing people
