The coal and O&G industries have been pushing themselves as suppliers to power AI, so don’t blame AI without blaming the coal and O&G industries.
Why not blame both?
We were too addicted to AI slop to save ourselves.
Actually no, no one was addicted to AI slop, it was just shoved into every product so that huge companies could make a profit and everyone hates it.
But wait! The huge companies are losing tons money on this.
Why did we destroy the planet again???
The capitalist class loves the idea and rewards companies with investment money. They think it could be the ultimate tool to snuff out any power the working class still has; making many employees optional, total surveillance of the population, etc. I think it will be a long time until it can do many jobs, but the surveillance tech seems to be coming along pretty well (with “AI” cameras recording license plates and biometric identifiers being put up everywhere).
its the techbros that are obsessed with AI slop.
Earth was past 7 of 9 planetary boundaries to support human life… before AI happened. That is again, boundaries to support HUMAN LIFE.
Article from when it was 6/9:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-have-crossed-6-of-9-planetary-boundaries/
And I thought AI killing us would use cool robots and Shit. Well.
So close, they will use coal robots and Shit. Wells
TBF it requires minimum effort from the ai. Efficient.
This one sums up humanity quite well these days: “Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you!” - Londo Mollari
Republicans are kinda like robots
Meanwhile China is going all in on renewables.
Here is a fact: an authoritarian non-democracy is doing a lot for securing the future of humanity, while the “leader of the free world” are vandalizing the climate and accelerating apocalyptic climate catastrophe.
In 2025, China is a net positive for the future of humanity, while the USA is a net negative.
If that makes you uncomfortable about what our political and economic systems in the West that brought us here, well, you know the meme: “facts don’t care about your feelings”.
If you, like me, care about the future of democracy, we have to do a LOT of digging.
And a lot of burying.
Our current system is going about how Marx predicted it would. The course correction that occurred after the Great Depression has been now completely reversed and we’re back staring at its approaching collapse. I don’t think we can escape that long term, and we’ll lose democracy in the process, unless we start moving away from capitalism. We gotta attack private firm ownership. Otherwise we’ll keep getting people accumulate enough capital to buy the rest of the system and steamroll the rest of us for profit.
capitalism was kind of never democratic i think, considering so much is basically dictated by the people who “own” it, which feels more like a dictatorship/ feudalism
Meanwhile China is going all in on renewables.
BUT
AT
WHAT
COST
If that makes you uncomfortable about what our political and economic systems in the West that brought us here, well, you know the meme: “facts don’t care about your feelings”.
It might be cold comfort, but none of these business models have the liquidity behind them to build out coal power at the levels they claim they’ll need.
Nevermind that solar/wind would be cheaper. Or that the raw manpower to yield coal in quantity no longer exists. So much of these proposals are - at their heart - the same vaporware that promised waves of new nuclear construction and hydro-power and geothermal.
Bottom line is that GenAI’s primary revenue comes from dumb VC and bad debt. They can’t build, much less operate, any of this shit.
We are a nation of man/woman children. Petulant little kids who don’t want to grow up and be responsible for anything.
Fuck AI and these energy guzzling data centers. For decades we were told to conserve power and such and now all of those savings are being sucked up, and more, by these centers.
its actually raising electricity prices in many areas.
And for some reason OUR utility bills are going up to pay for it.
Yep. People are charged the marginal cost of power generation. Everyone pays the price of the most expensive source of electricity. The market is rigged.
Remember, everytime us plebs are told to sacrifice for the environment it’s so the corpos and parasites can off load moral responsibility onto us.
they funded alot of campaigns doing that.
Disgusting
Hey, regime 🖕
(Just expressing what is left to express here)
It’s fucking insane how much is invested (both money and natural resources) in the emperor’s new clothes. Let’s scorch the planet because every idiot out there buys into the marketing and hype. We are utterly and truly doomed because of ourselves.
Future generations will look back on the pre apocalypse population and call us sleep walkers. I know, as I’m one of them. Life is difficult enough already without jeopardising my freedom as the only way to change our course is violence at this point.
There’s still time for a general strike. The country would be brought to its knees if suddenly deprived of profit and labor. That tactic was extremely effective in Chile in 2019, and had they not fallen for the trick of liberal reform, they would’ve had a successful revolution on their hands with virtually no bloodshed.
If you aren’t in a union (or even if you are, it’s worth dual-carding), please consider joining the IWW to unionize your workplace (bonus: you’ll get higher wages, better benefits, and more time off if you succeed!) to strengthen a general strike if we manage to enact one.
And for our international friends, you should join one as well, as fascism is gaining momentum globally. If your country isn’t listed below, just contact the IWW directly in the link above.
- 🇦🇷 Argentina: FORA
- 🇦🇺 Australia: ASF-IWA
- 🇧🇷 Brazil: FOB
- 🇧🇬 Bulgaria: ARS, CITUB
- 🇩🇪 Germany: FAU
- 🇬🇷 Greece: ESE
- 🇮🇹 Italy: USI
- 🇳🇱 🇧🇪 Netherlands & Belgium: Vriji Bond
- 🇪🇸 Spain: CNT
- 🇸🇪 Sweden: SAC
- 🇬🇧 United Kingdom: UVW
Also @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
Future generations will look back on the pre apocalypse population
If it makes you feel any better, our '01, '08, '14, and '20 recessions all put hard downward pressure on carbon emissions.
If Trump manages to throw us into the first full blown Depression in a century, he may do more to curb US emissions than any president in history.
All of these problems are caused by a remarkably small network of people. I’m not even necessarily talking about the CEOs. It’s the boards of directors. This is also the pool from which CEOs are drawn one and the pool to which CEOs return after their golden parachute. They function as a living repository of evil. A warehouse of criminals and nepo-babies. (Ex: Airbnb guy joined DOGE and is on teslas board. So first he destroys the housing market for a generation, and then destroys the government, and he is the person who directs Tesla.)
Like, could fit in one big room.
the only way to change our course is violence at this point.
Sadly, yes.
Reminds me of this song. Carbon based lifeforms. World of sleepers
AI and the investment around it are literally the only thing holding up America’s economy right now. If you take the artificial growth and the vast amounts of investment that are being pumped in AI development data centers, the US economy has barely grown half percentage point.
No surprise that they are going to power this beast at all costs until it falls apart along with the US economy.
No surprise that they are going to power this beast at all costs
I mean, they could use their fascist power grab to drive through the infrastructure work to expand power transmission lines needed to support a modern economy, renewables, and yes more datacenters
Additional coal is just the easiest way since we already have century old power lines bringing that power where it’s needed
Yes, in this case, coal might be easiest, cheapest, fastest because we can continue to neglect infrastructure. It’ll fall apart on someone else’s administration
Typical. So basically, they’re gonna turn America into Texas. Their power grid is famously shitty and has been neglected for decades due to Republican control of the government. They are constantly kicking the can down the road for some other administration to deal with it.
Everyone time there’s even a slight dusting of snow anywhere in Texas the power grid shuts off and people freeze to death. But Texas refuses to fix the power grid and nationalize because it would mean investing and bringing their shitty substandard power grid up to modern standards.
Well, I mean it’s not all marketing and hype. I was able to get it to write a piece of code to scrape a RSS feed and email me if it met certain perameters. I couldn’t have done that without a real grind / if at all. This is effectively the only time I’ve used it, and I think it’s atrocious the amount of petty shit people use it for… but there can be a functional benefit to generative AI. Makes me shed a tear thinking of the energy demand though.
Jesus fucking Christ, man. RSS parsers and emailing are literally next up after “Hello, World” in programming. If that would have required “months and months of learning” as you stated elsewhere, then maybe programming just isn’t for you — AI or no AI. It’s OK not being able to do something! However, it’s some next level 1st world entitlement shit to think that you’re somehow entitled to be able to create programs without any effort on your part and with a complete disregard for the cost to the environment and the planet.
I have a low carbon footprint and my solar has exported 17,000 kWh more than my usage. Please tell me again how a 0.3 watt hour query is me completely disregarding the environment
Edit: I have ai generated search engine summaries turned off… I hope you do too
People have been making web crawlers for the past 30 years. Why do you need to torch an acre of forest to do the same?
I’m sure people have been making crawlers for 30 years… But I haven’t been, so I’ve been able to access “knowledge” and shape it for my use case. I think equating ~5 queries to torching an acre of forest is a bit hyperbolic which doesn’t help anyone.
i have been using “rss2email” for years. extremely simple, works great, deterministic. no need to reinvent the wheel for a simple use case, and thats half the point here - a lot of “solutions” being found were already solved.
Isnt this essentially the case by definition? If LLMs can solve a problem it’s only because a human already solved that problem (not that this is any different from what humans do)
maybe? was just trying to provide specific alternatives with a concrete example
In this scenario it needs to read a 5 day forecast capture key elements and only send the email/ alert the first time and not the following 4 days(if the alert remains the same) so in my previous attempts at RSS reader apps already in existence, they didn’t meet the need.
Wow, you managed to do something you could have done without AI, but used more resources to do it.
Ah but they aren’t his resources
I might not have been clear, no I don’t think I could have done it. Or if I could it would have taken months and months of learning . This was generated in about 5 queries and a total of 25 minutes testing.
Lame story.
Our most advanced tech is dependent on some of our most old tech.
Datacenter != AI
If you are using the internet for anything with cloud storage, you are contributing to datacenter growth. And that includes nearly everyone using social media.
Datacenter != AI
Except the demand for new data centers is driven entirely by the capacity constraints of the current AI models.
If you are using the internet for anything with cloud storage, you are contributing to datacenter growth.
“Why are you mad at my five ton diseal SUV when you just adopted a pet chihuahua? They both emit carbon!”
I’m not sure that’s true. Every company uses storage, and every growing company needs more. But very few companies are training generative AIs.
Every company uses storage, and every growing company needs more.
You’re comparing mountains to molehills. That’s before you consider improvements in storage and compression relative to demands for space, or the degree to which our storage capacity “needs” are predicated on the voracious appetite of AI models and their unwanted output. Or, for that matter, the inefficient distribution of data and proliferation of spam data that predates it.
very few companies are training generative AIs
Most US Growth Now Rides on AI—And Economists Suspect a Bubble
The expansion in demand is entirely being driven by the expansion in AI capacity.
That article doesn’t say what you imply it does. Companies may be using ChatGPT to grow, but that doesn’t mean they are training AIs.
And the distinction is critical to energy usage. Training a new AI uses a lot of energy. Querying an existing AI uses far less.
Companies may be using ChatGPT to grow, but that doesn’t mean they are training AIs.
It’s the MAG7 that’s driving growth. And they’re all fixated on training AI in some capacity
Training a new AI uses a lot of energy. Querying an existing AI uses far less.
It costs $5 for each 10s video generation, based on Azure’s published rates for the first Sora model.
That’s presumably a lot of energy.
The MAG7 operate large and growing cloud services, so their datacenter costs would grow even without any AI training.
And charging $5 for a video query does not mean the query uses $5 of energy. The query is priced to recoup training costs that were already incurred.
Sure but energy use per datacenters was on a downward trend before ai, then it went the other way hard
Yes but data center growth prior to AI was manageable. There isn’t a grid on the planet (except maybe china?) which can support the growth of AI data centers.
These people have to plan energy needs on a 10-20 year life cycle, not 2. It’s the 2 that’s the problem.
china is also building lots of coal plants to sustain the datacenters.
The bitcoin miners have hopefully dropped off because they were chewing up gobs of energy too.
I thought they were totally just using flare gas and renewables ;) 🙄
But my understanding for real is that ai data centers are just the same hardware as buttcoin but more of it and organized. The venture capitalists finally got what they wanted, blowing their wad on Nvidia.
I’m perfectly fine with Lemmy being limited to 100% renewable power. Don’t burn coal or LNG for me.
This would be 99% of businesses at this point. Stop using AI to make memes and clickbait videos.
Crash can’t come soon enough
Will it crash, though? It’s replacing people, and people are expensive.
Yes. This tech can’t replace people like some think it can. Most companies aren’t reducing head count just outsourcing.
and only keep around a couple senior engineers, employees to manage those outsourced people, since the outsourced people may not be on par with stateside employees.
It’s doing a shit job at replacing people, it’s still too prone to hallucinating for the vast majority of its applications.
In many of the applications where AI has replaced people the promised performance gains never materialized because of the insane amount of babysitting a LLM agent requires.
Doesn’t matter if it can write 10 hours of code in 5 minutes if you still need a software dev to troubleshoot the output for 25 hours.
They have like 90% reliability (figure pulled directly from my ass) but they need 99.99% reliability to actually be effectively reliable.
They’ve burned through all their hype and still haven’t made it reliable yet. I think they’re not going to get it done before the bubble collapses.
It’ll be similar to the dotcom boom, infinite hype implosion collapses the market to a few core players and then those core players will get there over the next 15 years.
Isn’t going to disappear but it’s absolutely going to fade into the background of day to day life.
Edit: Wow. Folks really can’t take a joke!
Are you one of the too many people?
Lol. I thought the “crash can’t come soon enough” line was hilariously close to Dwight’s line. It was a joke. I guess everybody missed it. Fair enough, too, it was a joke from a comedy program… Why would anyone think that was supposed to be funny.
The people can stay, it is the AI that has to go.
Nah people are terrible . Have you seen lemmy?
From a long term environmental standpoint that’s not at all clear cut.
We objectively have too many humans in our biosphere for our current rate of resource consumption and we should significantly drop the overall number.
However, our current standard of living is mostly the result of a shared economy where we pool and share our resources and have a shit ton of people working.
Right now neural network algorithms consume a lot of processing power and resources, but they also solve whole new classes of automations problems that computers haven’t been able to solve before.
If we actually want to maintain our standard of living and reduce the population size, we may very well need AI automation utilities. They can keep scaling down in size and power consumption in the way that a real human can’t.
Stop this ecofascist shit.
We can support the current population, it’s just not profitable or popular to do so.
Birthrates naturally level off as societies develop. Many are already seeing negative growth.
Our current standard of living is mostly predicated on offshoring the suffering and waste to the global South, but even that could be comfortably leveled off if we weren’t living under Capitalism.
We don’t need large AI farms, we need empathy. The techbros will not save us.
They’re the ecofascist yet you’re the one saying “you’ll shit in the mud and you’ll like it”.
Birthrates lower partially thanks to higher standard of living, which are not sustainable for 7+ billions people.
Not that I think LLMs are going to help in any way, but every time someone mentions overpopulation, all the counter arguments I see are loads of anti system rhetoric with nothing to show for it.
You think soviet Russia was/current China is sustainable?
The earth can easily sustain our current population at a 1st world standard of living, but only if we are orders of magnitude more efficient. That means things like no mass car usage, eco-urbanisn, no more single family homes with quarter acre empty lawns, widespread plant-based foods as the norm, and repairable technology that actually lasts decades instead of planned obsolescence and cheap plastic junk that fills up landfills.
You don’t need to be some anarcho-primitivist/Ted Kaczynski wannabe living in a wooden shack with one set of clothes.
Now is that viable in the current societal climate? No, people, especially Americans generally hate much of those eco-urbanist ideas. As long as Capitalism is the default economic system and neo-liberal politics is the default political approach to democracy, we will continue marching towards a consumerist doom.
We can support the current population, it’s just not profitable or popular to do so.
If your solution ignores the nature of human psychology it’s not a solution, it’s a quixotic quest.
Our current standard of living is mostly predicated on offshoring the suffering and waste to the global South, but even that could be comfortably leveled off if we weren’t living under Capitalism.
Yes, and as their standard of living rises to meet ours, the whole human output becomes increasingly unsustainable.
We don’t need large AI farms, we need empathy. The techbros will not save us.
There is a more plausible path for neural networks to be involved in climate change solutions then their is for you to replace capitalism.
my brother in christ what are you saying? you know that rich people are the biggest polluters?
you know how ai datacenters literally destroy our planet? and for what? these supposed automation tasks will not serve us. we will have mass poverty and more wealth concentrated into the hands of a habdful of tech bros. it’s the industrial revolution all over again.
the global south is suffering from our actions. and how do you define living standards? do you think a capital slave that works in deadly conditions will be happy becase now they have an iphone and access to electricity? No. a slave is still a slave.
my brother in christ what are you saying? you know that rich people are the biggest polluters?
Yes, and what do you think is happening as other countries rise out of poverty? We have way too many humans on this planet to support everyone having a middle class lifestyle.
you know how ai datacenters literally destroy our planet?
Yeah, right now. But if you tried to render 4k videos in 1990 it would also take a full data center and enormous amount of power, but computer chips can do this thing where they get smaller and orders of magnitude more efficient over time, which is how every single phone can do it on 5W of usb power today.
The rain of down votes on ur comments shows me that Lemmy has become every bit as much if not worse an echo chamber than reddit. Facts of the matter are humans are overcrowding the plant and gobbling up all the resources at an unsustainable rate. Human population DOES need to drop a bit of we are to use this planet long term, lest we spell our own doom in a few hundred years by picking this once beautiful planet to the bone.
Only on lemmy would someone think 22 total votes of which only 3/4 are downvotes would be considered a “rain of downvotes” imagine if you were in a room with 22 people and 4 agree with you but 18 didn’t. That wouldn’t be considered a flood of downvotes. That’d just be a minority position.
Lmao no
I’m sure that if AI could get to the state where it could even approach maybe doing those things, it will mesh very well with capitalism and we’d all benefit collectively. One of the core tenants of capitalism.
I hope someone drops you on your head again
Your issue is clearly with capitalism, and yet you’re brain deadly bitching about AI instead.
If we actually want to maintain our standard of living and reduce the population size, we may very well need AI automation utilities. They can keep scaling down in size and power consumption in the way that a real human can’t.
Theoreticisizing LLM’s usefulness and resourcefulness doesn’t help you there. For now they are rather useless embaracingly inefficient resoucehogs existing purely because of the bubble. It’s a gamble at best, or a waste of resources and a degradation of human workforce at worst.
AI is not just LLMs, and it’s already revolutionized biotechnical engineering through things like alpha fold. Like I said, “AI”, as in neural network algorithms of which LLMs are just one example, are literally solving entirely new classes of problems that we simply could not solve before.
LLM is what usually sold as AI nowadays. Convential ML is boring and too normal, not as exciting as a thing that processes your words and gives some responses, almost as if it’s sentient. Nvidia couldn’t come to it’s current capitalization if we defaulted to useful models that can speed up technical process after some fine tuning by data scientists, like shaving off another 0.1% on Kaggle or IRL in a classification task. It usually causes big but still incremental changes. What is sold as AI and in what quality it fits into your original comment as a lifesaver is nothing short of reinvention of one’s workplace or completely replacing the worker. That’s hardly hapening anytime soon.
LLM is what usually sold as AI nowadays. Convential ML is boring and too normal, not as exciting as a thing that processes your words and gives some responses, almost as if it’s sentient.
To be fair, that’s because there are a lot of automation situations where having semantic understanding of a situation can be extremely helpful in guiding action over a ML model that is not semantically aware.
The reason that AI video generation and out painting is so good for instance it that it’s analyzing a picture and dividing it into human concepts using language and then using language to guide how those things can realistically move and change, and then applying actual image generation. Stuff like Waymo’s self driving systems aren’t being run through LLMs but they are machine learning models operating on extremely similar principles to build a semantic understanding of the driving world.
lol keep dreaming :)
I don’t have to dream, DeepMind literally won the Nobel prize last year. My best friend did his PhD in protein crystallography and it took him 6 years to predict the structure of a single protein underlying legionnaires disease. He’s now at MIT and just watched DeepMind predict hundreds of thousands of them in a year.
If you vet your news sources by only listening to ones that are anti-AI then you’re going to miss the actual exciting advancements lurking beneath the oceans of tech bro hype.
Most people are cool with some AI when you show the small, non-plagarative stuff. It sucks that “AI” is such a big umbrella term, but the truth is that the majority of AI (measured in model size, usage, and output volume) is bad and should stop.
Neural Network technology should not progress at the cost of our environment, short term or long term, and shouldn’t be used to dilute our collective culture and intelligence. Let’s not pretend that the dangers aren’t obvious and push for regulation.
lol like we actually share. we have centibillionaries while people work hard for almost nothing.
So we objectively have too large of a population, but not if we change our standard of living and you want AI to solve this problem not by reducing our standard of living but instead by reducing the population?
The ones advocating for corporate greed and AI are the same ones talking about a birth rate crisis. I guess they just want more proles to slave for them and damn the ones who die young in the process.
Fuck this timeline
i see some state universities around saying the same, thing trying to blame the low enrollment crisis, to low birth rates, and not because COVID exposed the low-no job prospects and HCOL of post graduation. if your universities obscures/obfuscate the most important part of your DEGREE: labwork, or internships/ experience its only going to end one way.
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell
And capitalism!
Hooray for cancer, asthma and bronchitis! Make America Healthy Again. Lung health is like Karate – black is the best!
they built it in red states, because theres less resistance to regulate polluting data center, and in rural areas.
What doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger! Or chronically ill, but in a cool way, really.
Looking forward the 2026 ESG reports of large companies that are so happy to embrace AI :)
I think you would have an easier time searching for those who didn’t.
I’m not into gold panning… though it’s not like all companies are using AI so much that it will transpire in their ESG. Now I now a couple that were so far very happily ignoring this source of carbon and, as far as I remember, it was not reported by the cloud providers either.
