As Ireland’s $1,500-a-month basic income pilot program for creatives nears its end in February, officials have to answer a simple question: Is it worth it?
With four months to go, they say the answer is yes.
Earlier this month, Ireland’s government announced its 2026 budget, which includes “a successor to the pilot Basic Income Scheme for the Arts to begin next year” among its expenditures.
Ireland is just one of many places experimenting with guaranteed basic income programs, which provide recurring, unrestricted payments to people in a certain demographic. These programs differ from a universal basic income, which would provide payments for an entire population.
As laudable as a program as this is, it stings a bit being in Ireland, which has essentially become a tax haven for multinational corporations. It is nice to support the arts, but it shouldn’t come off the backs of shadily robbing world governments of billions in tax revenues. The cultural impacts of this have become extremely toxic, and hostile to the arts overall internationally.
It also seems like a strange job program. I’m close with someone who works for a US company that incorporated in Ireland. The company is required to have a number of Irish employees who live in the country. Those employees don’t do anything.
I think this is really cool, and I support it. Kudos!
That being said, I don’t think $1500 is enough… but also, how did they even determine $1500 to be the #? This article left me with some questions.
It may not be perfect, but it’s absolutely a step in the right direction. I just need more info to understand more.
The criteria for artists they provide is not good. Maybe Ireland is different, but I think broadly, we need more bridge builders than music bands. Both require skill, practice, hardwork and require “art” skills. The difference is, people tend to care about the oversaturated one more. We need both, but one is much more underutilized.
I’ve been struggling for years, living in poverty since I was 18 despite having just about the best education you can have in my field. I’ve made desperate decisions and risky moves to keep a roof over my head all while being spat on by all sorts of people and weathering wave after wave of politically motivated anti-intellectualism and it’s 2AM and I’m exhausted from digging a fucking trench to install pipes for the shitty house in the middle of buttfuck nowhere that I’ve had to move to in order to be able to work from home…
And this piece of news made me cry a little. Even though I don’t live in Ireland.
Cause I know how it is to feel like there’s no way out and to watch how everyone consumes art daily like addicts all while saying artists don’t matter and we should be grateful for the “privilege” we have and yelling “get a real job” anytime you complain.
And that’s my piece. Bring on the logical arguments. I’ve laid out my feelings.
Also, UBI for everyone would be fucking amazing. Why we’re not doing that is beyond me. It’s like “they” think that without a “carrot on a stick” everyone will stop working. If I had a penny for everyone who practically can’t think straight because of how worried they are about basic needs I’d probably save those pennies for my own basic needs. Fear is not a good motivator for workers.
Also, UBI for everyone would be fucking amazing. Why we’re not doing that is beyond me.
You can do it right now. Create a club to share a part of everybody’s income as UBI.
Fear is a good motivator for committing crime. But not for getting a job.
A lot of gatekeepers in the comments who seem to love the idea of a UBI, but hate any attempt to test the viability of one.
I think this is a great step towards proving the benefits of a UBI for the greater population. I believe supporting the arts is always a positive endeavour, so using them as the pilot program kills two birds with one stone. I think that randomising who gets to enter the pilot program may allow some people to game the system, but the benefits outweigh the possibility of one schyster scamming a paycheque. The lottery system stops this becoming a bonus for established or famous artists, and supports creatives in all areas.
All in all, this is a good thing, and the people who want “all or nothing” are short sighted.
but hate any attempt to test the viability of one
How many more before people are convince it works? I think this is one of those studies or referendums where the powers-that-be and its supporters keep running the test until they get the one result they want. Besides, with the burgeoning automation, UBI is needed. If not, at least universal basic services could be done instead, where we are provided with housing and utilities for free, if the concern that over-accumulation of capital through free handouts might lead to abuse or crash the economy or some vague similar notions
There’s been lots of studies, it works.
This would fix me
I hate being alive.
Artists… yes, because god knows, theres a shortage of those insufferable pricks running around… You ever meet an art student? You will never, in your life, meet a more entitled own fart sniffer.
Surely theres a better, more deserving group of people out there that could make use of this kind of program? Single parents? Kids from low income families, looking to get into higher education? Why, O, fucking why, is it “artists”???
well you sound like an enjoyable person
I dont “sound” like anything to you. And I actually can be quite fun, unlike art students who have had the reputation of being stuck up cunts for longer than Ive been alive. But sure, attack my character and not the content of the comment. That always make you look real fucking smart, and not at all like a fucking moron trying to get worthless internet points off a heavily downvoted comment…
you’re not disproving them tho.
And why should I? Why is my being fun or not have anything to do with other groups in society being more deserving of and offering more tangible evidence of, this being a good thing? Why am I the topic of conversation at all???
You dont have to answer that, we both know why. Because its only ever morons who attack the poster and not the post. The way to go was challenging what I said, not that I said it and that because Im “not fun” I should be ignored.
Honestly, imagine being this fucking butthurt because I said kids from underprivileged/poverty backgrounds would be better for something like this than fucking “artists”. The utter fucking state of the world.
Imagine being this mad about pixels on a screen
Yes… imagine…
If every art student has a problem with you, I don’t think the problem is art students
Fucking cringe.
Boy lemmy.world is really pulling in some winners these days
Entitled? Nah, you’re thinking of business majors.
No, Im not. The reputation of art students is well known, and has been for more than 50 years. Case and point, Hitler was a fucking art student.
that’s unfair. what classifies as “art”? am i an artist? I’m not sure.
i think a major point of the UBI scheme was the broad democratic support because everyone benefits from it. if only a specific group of people gets it, that’s just another way to split the society. not what we need.
that’s unfair.
Crabs in a Bucket
haha yeah :) but no, actually, i want them to have UBI, i just want everyone else to have it as well :) that’s a difference.
This program has been terminated by Irish Arts minister Bucket O’Crabs.
Well, our current system is unfair. So you can get on board with helping struggling artists, or you could rather more people struggle.
If this scheme works out, it doesn’t take much to think this could be applied to more and more groups.
It has to start somewhere, and opposing this because it doesn’t immediately include everyone is short sighted and selfish imo. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good here.
It gets even more unfair: participants get selected by chance (if they fulfill the criteria)
BUT it’s just a pilot project. I hope it’s successful and gets implemented for everyone - I mean everyone has the potential to become an artist if money isn’t the deciding factor anymore.
Who knows how many great musicians, painter, etc. are stuck in a 9-5 job? I for example want to create a game… Not really “art” in the classical sense, but creative and prone to bring me next to no money unless I have a lot of luck.
Hell, even scientists might be more free in what they want to study if money is less of a problem…
UBI might be a great thing and I agree that art isn’t the only thing that could benefit from it.
How many great artists, thinkers, and other potential geniuses are actually out there in the world, but they were unable to fulfill their potential because they had to struggle just to survive?
Imagine how many Ramanujans are actually out there, unable to do what they’re great at because they’re being crushed by the capitalist machine.
also by the way what i find interesting is that UBI wouldn’t actually have to pay for 100% of people’s living expenses. imagine i get a $100, then i’m gonna spend $30 of that on food at a nearby restaurant, so the chef and waiters are gonna get money, which they then spend again … what i’m saying is that $1 in UBI does far more than $1, because people are gonna spend it and then other people are gonna have it … so you probably need to pay far less than 100% of living expenses, only like maybe 30% could be enough.
Or less. Alaska’s dividend program is a couple thousand a year and significantly reduces its poverty rate.
Defining living expenses is tough. If everyone is homeless, getting them a studio or tiny house seems basic, but if everyone is in a studio, getting them into a one bedroom seems basic. If everyone struggles to get enough clean water to drink, having water for drinking and washing seems basic, but if everyone has plenty of wash water then they want pools and irrigated golf courses. The way human brains are programmed with a hedonistic treadmill means we will never feel like 100% of our living expenses are covered. But every sustainable bit of help we can set up society to deliver makes our society richer.
“Art” is such an interesting notion. I think it’s safe to say that we currently call people “artists” if they’re able to commodify their creative output. Whereas in reality, all humans are capable of creative expression. You are an artist. We all are. And UBI should be given to everybody!
I would guess, it means you have an art degree or something of the sort.
Ireland: do implement and study a program and agree it is working and they will continue it.
Users who are jealous: “this is unfair” “how that even work” “I am an artist”
For those, like me, that are curious how they decide who’s eligible…
Also:
Selection process
The department expects a high volume of applications and it will not be possible to provide funding to all eligible applicants.
Selection will be a non-competitive process. Once an applicant satisfies the eligibility criteria they will be included in an anonymised random sampling process to determine the pilot participants from the pool of eligible applicants for the BIA Pilot.
Funding for the scheme will allow for approximately 2,000 eligible applicants to participate in the pilot scheme.
So it’s a lottery? WTF.
Lotteries avoid issues with the deciding committee handing these to their friends.
To an extent, it also can provide better data on outcomes. Instead of biasing for the most motivated, it includes a wider pool, so of whom may otherwise be seen as “unworthy”. Then people do people things.
Not just “to an extent.” Randomised Controlled Trials (lotteries) are the gold standard for evaluating policy. The political optics for the general public unfortunately aren’t great, but the resulting data will be much more ironclad to refute anyone who argues for repealing such a scheme in the future.
Sure, it’s not without advantages, but it waters down the concept quite a bit. Which may or may not be a bad thing, I guess - lots of people could use a basic income.
How else would you handle distributing a limited resource pot without making judgment about what art is good/valid?
A competitive system is more what I was expecting. So, somebody who’s a big name in Irish art but doesn’t currently make a living would get priority above someone who just has an Etsy shop.
That is a judgement call, but not neccesarily about the worth of the art itself.
you see this a lot with these pilots. its funny because you don’t really see the actual benefits until everyone gets it. Someone can breathe and take some classes to get into a profession or take some time to get into better shape to become a first responder or start a business.
also by the way what i find interesting is that UBI wouldn’t actually have to pay for 100% of people’s living expenses. imagine i get a $100, then i’m gonna spend $30 of that on food at a nearby restaurant, so the chef and waiters are gonna get money, which they then spend again … what i’m saying is that $1 in UBI does far more than $1, because people are gonna spend it and then other people are gonna have it … so you probably need to pay far less than 100% of living expenses, only like maybe 30% could be enough.
edit: this has nothing to do with your comment, i just wanted to write it somewhere.
oh yeah. its kinda like when people talking about a penny costing more to make than a penny but metal coins last much longer in circulation than bills. so if its actually used for its intended purpose then its not an issue as each penny realizes many pennies over its lifetime. The problem comes if the value is so desperate that people hold on to them as a value store. I firmly believe this type of understanding is lacking in our politicians who love half of what keynes said but like to ignore the other half.
A lottery among pre-selected candidates. Just about anything can be considered to be art, so it is inevitable that there would be far more demand than fulfillment. After all, if they gave $1500 per month to anyone who claimed to be an artist, literally every single citizen would suddenly become committed to their “art.”
I’m already a musician, but if I weren’t, I’d become an artist today.
Yeah, exactly. If the selection isn’t competitive it’s vaguely art-themed more than anything, in practice.
This is kind of ridiculous and not even ubi. Universal means universal. And this is clearly not universal. So if only some people get the grant, there needs to be a talent competition and the 2000 best artists should be the winners. Otherwise imagine being objectively a better artist than someone else who got the grant and you didn’t get it. 😡
Trying to rank who is the better artist objectively sounds like a nightmare
Well to start, it would be easy to weed out people who consider themselves artists but nobody, NOBODY likes their “art.”
Nobody in the Irish government has actually used the label “universal” for this program by the way.
Good. Then people discussing it should stop saying “ubi.”
I feel like this won’t last long (maybe 10 or 15 years), because they’ll end up prioritizing seniors.
Why would a politician prioritize artists when the majority of voters are seniors who want their pensions?
This. The only way this could possibly work is if it’s universal.
Either UBI for everyone or UBI for no one. Lest we forget, money for this comes from of decades of collaboration in European tax avoidance by greedy multinational corporations to avoid paying their fair share in the other EU countries they operate in.
Otherwise, UBI is a great idea.
edit: “-excludes for example journalism or books for educational purposes, for example: textbooks, technical manuals, writing created for advertising or publicity purposes.”
Yeah, you wouldn’t want journalism or education to be freely accessible as an ocupation… This has to be the most ridiculous ubi experiment in the last decade.
Either UBI for everyone or UBI for no one.
UBI for some.
Little American flags for others
We already have basic income but just for some people. Would it be better to abolish those programs or keep them?
Ireland has a history of supporting artists, mostly with large tax breaks for ARTISTS. While journalists and scholars use writing extensively in their careers, they are not “artists” in the way that people tend to think of that concept. They are not creating art, they are creating knowledge. That’s an honorable endeavor, but it is not strictly art.
mostly with large tax breaks for ARTISTS
i mean yeah that barely costs ireland anything as artists are typically poor and therefore barely pay taxes anyways … /s
I wasn’t implying journalism is art, I’m implying no government is going to give you the tools to depose them.
Regarding “ARTISTS”, let’s see how many of the supported artists actually develop a craft rather than just producing content.
Many many many popular historical artists were not popular in their own time. The if it’s be an artist or go work for a living, that’s still people paying for things in their communities for however long that is. It’s entirely worth it even if they just create content. It’s a fair place to start imho
The overwhelming majority of the EU population works in services industries, whereas we lack specialized tradespeople like construction specialists. If forced to choose, I’d rather see that UBI go to them to support an early retirement plan for those underapreciated classes that have physically demanding work. Anyone can be an artist, especially if we don’t need to have two jobs to make rent.
Perfect being the enemy of good.
Man it’s gotta got to start somewhere. The full value of such a system will not be seen in our life times.
But if “anyone can be an artist” I’ll argue then that is actually the very best place to start this.
Young, old, decrepit, disadvantages, anyone can claim an artist UBI? Fucking great! That sounds like a feature not a bug
Work on your own terms, your own needs, within your own choices. Fucking great.
I’ve lived where the first thing they gets cut from every budget is the Arts.
That certainly hasn’t made the world a better place to live because “work” is always going to be a dog eat dog world where you don’t collaborate you compete. Your usefulness is only determined by how much value can be extracted from you without a care for your well being.
Arts are useless? Can’t make rent with an arts degree? Well guess what now everyone can.
I really don’t understand why you are so pissed about this and seemingly(my interpretation, I could be wrong) uninterested in looking at how this can be good the way it is.
as long as influencers dont count as artists, does this sound great
edit: i still want everyone to get UBI and like rather have artists + influencers than none
That attitude is why the wealthy will always insist on means testing to oppose progress…
The attitude we need is:
I hope as many people as possible get it now, and we’ll keep working on the rest.
Influencers suck, pretty much as a rule.
But everyone deserves to live. And them being UBI proponents and constantly talking about it because they’re genuinely happy they got it is a hell of a lot better than them taking cash from a billionaire to pit us against each other.
i mean i get what you mean, and i ofc also want UBI for everyone
But i still think giving it to influencers specifically at this point is just further encouraging shitty behaviour, i think this will just make even more people try that, and to get any relevancy they would have to be even worse as a person to get any attention… And i doubt that they would not be greedy enough to not take not any extra money from whoever is offereing it.
I think it should be considere that they would litteraly influence others and i doubt it would be in a better way then it is currently.
i think i would be fine with litteraly any other group of people instead, and also influencers are probably not included anyway tho
(ofc there are probably some good influencers, but they are drowned out by all the others)
edit: but like i think i still would rather have artists + influencers ubi then none
wtf even is an “influencer?” i am an online comedian posting my own material to an audience of 90,000-100,000 followers. i am not trying to be an influencer. i don’t want to be seen as even a micro-influencer. it seems that word is given to anyone who is trying to be an entertainer online.
is that how you’re using it too? how would we legally separate between artists like me and whatever an influencer is?
In the current context i mean any of these “lifestyle” people, i mean these that basically create nothing, whose content is either just about themself, like a vlog or them live streaming how they play a game while they add nothing of value to it, or these whose content is them beeing a menace on socitiy, or pointless drama or ragebait stuff.
I dont think any of this is art.
But i dont mean anyone that actually does create something, so i dont mean online comedians like you, that is an artist for me in this context.
I actually think it is kind of hard to define, influencer is probably not even the right word for what i mean, but i have heard people use it for what i ment… But yeah i am probably using the word wrong
nah i get ya. i use the word the way you describe it as well. but i have seen commentary channels referred to as influencers which i didn’t think was right.
but like i think i still would rather have artists + influencers ubi then none
Right…
But first you posted a comment about how pissed you were that another group were getting it and they shouldn’t.
Even if you know you meant “everyone should get it”…
You didn’t type that, you were manipulated instead into only saying a group you don’t like shouldn’t get it.
No one reading your initial comment was/is capable of reading your mind. You did what the wealthy wanted, and may have influenced those who just read your first comment.
i edited my comment tbh for me it was kind of obviouse that i am not against UBI but fine, i guess it was not
You’re giving the right fucks. UBI for all.
Thankfully the article lists everyone that’s eligible and not eligible.
it was only a question of when i get called out on this lol
The price of not only forming a conclusion, but expressing it before collecting information.
Not true! I’m definitely not eligible, and I’m not listed anywhere in the article.
Reminds me of when Ireland uploaded one of the most ridiculous rap videos ever to their country’s youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPFZrRD3J8
They’ve always prioritized the arts, mostly because the English have been trying to erase Irish culture for centuries.
It makes perfect since why Ireland would prioritize Irish artists.
Absolute tune, the video is hilarious too.
That video is a work of art.
One of those guys does the blindboy podcast now, it’s well worth a listen.
“mostly because the English have been trying to erase Irish culture for centuries”
What on earth are you on about? Do you think anyone in England is waking up thinking about ways to suppress Irish culture? You do realise that England and Ireland are separate countries now?
Mate I’m English and let me tell you, you have no fecking idea how badly our previous generations have treated the Irish basically from the 12th century up to 1996.
Also feel free to ask the Welsh and Scottish for their takes as well on English suppression of their cultures.
If Ireland wants to invest in it’s cultural capital to expand it’s horizons outside of Whisky, Guinness, St. Patrick, etc. that have been co-opted and stereotyped by the Anglosphere, then good on them!
A good place to start would be checking out Kneecap.
Can’t wait for other new works that Irish artists will create from this investment.
Have you read like….any history book in your life? Ever? This take is absolutely baffling.
Do you think anyone in England is waking up thinking about ways to suppress Irish culture?
…
When someone says Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, do you think that person is talking about every common Israeli citizen, or specifically the Israeli government?
Like, this confusion is a much larger problem than Ireland/England. So I want to put a good effort into explaining it.
But first we need to get on the same page that the English royal family isn’t even eth ically English, they’re a cadet branch of the old French royalty before the French decapitated all their royals…
So pretty much the only people who’s had to put with the English royal family more than the Irish, are the English commoners. That’s why the English language is such a mess, there was no upper society enforcing rules on it as it grew, because the ruling English didn’t consider themselves English, they were the ruler of the English people.
Their culture was already pretty much erased by the time the English royals starting carrying about “England” and that was mostly just so the English royalty kept their heads. In private they likely don’t see themselves as English so much as as they see England as a representation of them, which is why they try to erase every other culture.
I hope some of that made sense because like I said, it’s important to understand when people criticize a country, they’re almost always referring to the government of said country, and not every last citizen…
Yes, I guarantee there’s at least one person who wakes up and does have that thought
I wonder what the criteria are to define what an artist is, or what requirements are needed to qualify for such assistance.
